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Thread: Men's LP

  1. #871
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    Sigh! This bitching about Chan is getting really old.

  2. #872
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    Quote Originally Posted by fscric View Post
    Sigh! This bitching about Chan is getting really old.
    LOL there ain't that much this time around in comparison!

  3. #873
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Quote Originally Posted by fscric View Post
    Sigh! This bitching about Chan is getting really old.
    Please, this is nothing. You just wait till Dance event starts. Now there drama guaranteed.

  4. #874
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    Originally Posted by kensal
    Kozuka's arm movements perfectly fit the choreography for dance in both SP and LP. And he does express movement and music great. This is practically comparing apples and oranges which again proves how subjective PCS for the most part are. That's why I share some people's opnion that while Chan's win is not questionable, 10 points or even 9.5 points is stretching too far. I would have PCS for Chan and Kozuka in 2 point difference range and I would let the judges to decide who should get 2 points more between those two. Personally for me Kozuka lost by one quad, even though ironically he got higher TES for simply executing those techs much better than Chan.

    Quote Originally Posted by kensal View Post
    The logic is that Kozuka won TES by GOEs not by base.
    That's where you lost me. What you're complaining? Kozuka got more GOE, and you induce that he should have got 2 point more than Chan in PCS too? What do you mean that Kozuka lost by one quad? I believe Kozuka didn't miss any jump pass. Even he does one more quad, would that necessarily change PCS by 10 points?

  5. #875
    Like subtlety in ice dancing Serious Business's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    As per ISU's own publications, they are frequently wrong and clueless about how to run CoP.
    I agree, I was just stating what the administrators of the COP explain transitions as. We both disagree with that definition, albeit in different ways.

    And what you said about stationary full body movement on the ice, such as Amodio's miming of Michael Jackson dance moves, still demands energy is absolutely true. It even demands training and talent, too. But I do think the scoring in skating should focus on skating-centric movement. I mean, that's the reasoning behind the prohibition on acrobatic rules like the back flip (which still requires more ice interaction than standing still and dancing). I do agree that it shouldn't be completely dismissed as worthless, and that it can add to the performance.

    However, I maintain that mouthing the lyrics does not. That's not energy intensive, nor does it require much forethought, training or finesse.

  6. #876
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    I believe Chan and Kozuka are both the happiest person on earth today, why should we be here nitpiking the protocol. I'm not going to do this any more.

    There is only one thing I'm unhappy with, the rule about illegal element. It is not reasonable, need a treak.

  7. #877
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilvskating View Post
    Originally Posted by kensal
    Kozuka's arm movements perfectly fit the choreography for dance in both SP and LP. And he does express movement and music great. This is practically comparing apples and oranges which again proves how subjective PCS for the most part are. That's why I share some people's opnion that while Chan's win is not questionable, 10 points or even 9.5 points is stretching too far. I would have PCS for Chan and Kozuka in 2 point difference range and I would let the judges to decide who should get 2 points more between those two. Personally for me Kozuka lost by one quad, even though ironically he got higher TES for simply executing those techs much better than Chan.



    That's where you lost me. What you're complaining? Kozuka got more GOE, and you induce that he should have got 2 point more than Chan in PCS too? What do you mean that Kozuka lost by one quad? I believe Kozuka didn't miss any jump pass. Even he does one more quad, would that necessarily change PCS by 10 points?
    First of all, I am not compalining. I never said that Kozuka missed any jump passes. I did not compare his TES and PCS.
    Secondly, read carefully, transition words are important in English. After I finished my PCS discussion I used full stop and word "Personally" to proceed stating my opinion on why I don't have problem with Kozuka behind Chan. And now I am tired.

  8. #878
    Like subtlety in ice dancing Serious Business's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilvskating View Post
    I believe Chan and Kozuka are both the happiest person on earth today, why should we be here nitpiking the protocol.
    I think Artur can join that club and be president! His podium finished was very unexpected. There was plenty of talk in Russia about how Russian skating is on track to dominate in Sochi, but too bad about the men's discipline! But then hometown boy makes good, and skates the best he's ever skated in his entire life so far to take bronze. It's the unexpected successes that are the most extravagant to its recipients.

  9. #879
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilvskating View Post
    I believe Chan and Kozuka are both the happiest person on earth today, .....
    Totally. I watched the award ceremony on youtube and it's obvious they are friends with each other, when Kozuka stepped onto the carpet, Chan came forward on his podium to shake hands with Kozuka and they embraced each other; that was a sweet moment.

  10. #880
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    Quote Originally Posted by fscric View Post
    Totally. I watched the award ceremony on youtube and it's obvious they are friends with each other, when Kozuka stepped onto the carpet, Chan came forward on his podium to shake hands with Kozuka and they embraced each other; that was a sweet moment.
    Do you have a link?

    I remember Taka's talking about Chan. After TEB 2008, where Chan got gold and Taka got silver, Taka and Chan chattered in their hotel room until midnight, then hotel employee came and asked them not to be noisy. Apparently they are friends.

  11. #881
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Business View Post
    However, I maintain that mouthing the lyrics does not. That's not energy intensive, nor does it require much forethought, training or finesse.
    Well, yes, of course. Like I said, the lyrics ruined his program....and you absolutely should not get any kind of extra credit for mouthing lyrics - LOL!

    I'm on the fence about the issue of lyrics being allowed or not (more leaning toward NO). They are allowed in Ice Dance and almost every Ice Dance performance I've seen that used lyrics was worse off because of it...and that discipline lends itself more naturally to lyrics than any other discipline. There are a few programs where it worked, though, and that almost makes me want to give the benefit of the doubt to other disciplines being able to use them. At the same time, I shudder at the number of awful programs with lyrics that we'd see and I think in non-Dance disciplines that lyrics could become a crutch. Objectivity would be harder to attain as well because having preference for a vocal or not is such a personal thing.

  12. #882
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morning Glory View Post
    Do you have a link?
    http://www.youtube.com/user/RiservaI...90E313F42DA7B3

    ETA: fscric's link is more direct.
    Last edited by bibi24; 04-28-2011 at 10:29 PM.

  13. #883
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morning Glory View Post
    Do you have a link?

    I remember Taka's talking about Chan. After TEB 2008, where Chan got gold and Taka got silver, Taka and Chan chattered in their hotel room until midnight, then hotel employee came and asked them not to be noisy. Apparently they are friends.
    Here you go, it's around the 3:30 mark:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVbrvfGbxVg

    ETA: I see bibi has provided another link.
    Last edited by fscric; 04-28-2011 at 10:27 PM.

  14. #884
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    Who were the commentators on IN, Universal, CBC TV?

    Anyone got copies of those on YouTube? I only have the taped of EuroSport.

  15. #885
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Your answer is unsatisfactory because it's a personal statement of preference with no evidence to back up your claim. I can't see your thought process at all. How do you show Kozuka is more musical and why does that impact IN? You need to do a lot better than that to convince anyone that your original claim re: 9 points gap is valid as opposed to just whining.

    I am not interested in other people's hearsay and figure skating is not a popularity contest. I am interested in your thought process, which I don't have to agree with but I want to see your logic and whether it would stand up under scruitny even if I may disagree with it. There is no right or wrong answer in the judging of figure skating. Until you can provide an explanation based on the rules as to why the gap of 9 points was unjustified, I am afraid I have to treat your comment as a statement of personal preference, nothing more.
    Sounds like Attack of the CoP Drone. What are you, a computer on steroids? Maybe a fan of the movie, Inception, and you've seen it too many times. Fortunately, no one has to take you through their thought process. Scrutinize and calculate till the cows come home, but realize that all of this involves individual perceptions, personal preferences, opinions, and subjectivity. As much as TPTB have tried to make figure skating about numbers, it isn't about numbers or logic. Posters can state what they feel, without the need to back it up or prove anything to you.

    All the numbers you seem obsessed by, you should remember are punched in by fallible human beings supposedly following a set of rules, but also governed by their own eyesight, perceptions (limited or otherwise), subjectivity, opinions, and political affiliations. The only pure thing about this sport is the skaters out there on the ice, sometimes making magic, sometimes struggling to contain their nerves, always trying to perform their best.

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