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Thread: Ladies - Short Program

  1. #526
    Long live the Queen! YunaBliss's Avatar
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    Yuna with with no 3/3 beating clean but slow Miki by less than a point?!!

    I would say Yuna was robbed.

  2. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Business View Post
    Very good point. But at the same time, Kim lost out on an even bigger +GOE on her other elements, especially the jumps. Her jumps are as huge and cover that massive gulf they always did, she deservedly gets good +GOE on them, but it's converted to less of a point advantage with the reduced factoring. Her spins are fast, crisp and controlled (whereas Miki's spins are a bit wobbly). While Miki really elevated her presentation, Yuna is projecting as hard as ever and her basic skating is better than Miki's.

    I looked at the protocols, and I really don't have a problem with the scores as they are. Yuna's base values are 28.5 to Miki's 28.7. A stepout on a jump is supposed to get -2 to -3, which converts to a -1.4 to -2.1. However, judges are supposed to start with the positive GOE first, then do the subtractions to end with the final GOE. Yuna's 3lutz was fully rotated and more massive than ever before the stepout (maybe its size was the reason she stepped out). The judges still gave her more than -2 on the element, resulting in a -1.5 point loss. Her PCS deserves to be higher than Miki. And when you put it all together, she's in first by a hair. It's completely consistent with the rules.
    Y pp are whining about Yuna's score. There's nothing wrong with it. -_-

  3. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Granted Alissa lost a few points with the wacky flip and a Level 2 step sequence. However, if Yuna gets all these +3 on her spins, Alissa should have had even more, that would've boosted her score by at least 2 points, putting her ahead of Ksenia.
    The max goe points you can get if you got all 3's on a level 4 layback is 1.5, so she would've gotten an extra .29 boost had she did and thus be in 3rd.

  4. #529
    Like subtlety in ice dancing Serious Business's Avatar
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    Oh my, someone brought up the fact that Yuna actually got 0.08 higher on the +GOE for her layback spin than Alissa. And her other spins got the exact same +GOE. While I don't think Yuna was overscored, (it did strike me how fast and crisp her spins were when I was watching that SP), Alissa was definitely underscored. She got far less +3 than she normally does on her spins (I did think Alissa's spins were a touch below her normal excellence, but that's only a slight step below Godhood), the judges were being stingy! Still, Alissa got the highest +GOE on spins besides anybody but Yuna.

  5. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by YunaBliss View Post
    Yuna with with no 3/3 beating clean but slow Miki by less than a point?!!

    I would say Yuna was robbed.
    Sure, she actually deserved a world record for that skate, right?

  6. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Her Triple Lutz did not receive enough of a deduction and her spins were overscored.
    I really think we need to think about scores on a relative scale instead of saying that a certain skater was over/underscored, because by definition, you need a point of comparison in order for you to be even able to say that someone is over/underscored. Here's one of the main problems with the COP: Yes, Yuna's spins were overscored, but so were Miki's. Is the focus on Yuna's spin scores implying that the GOEs for Miki are justifiable? Yuna's spin scores make sense (more or less) when we compared them in isolation with Miki's. If we compare Yuna and Miki's scores to a spinner like Alissa, then things get confusing.

    With regards to the whole reputations thing - yes it is unfair but there's really nothing we can do about it. Boosted scores (well, for Yuna here I think she was cushioned on the 3Lz but the other GOEs made perfect sense based on her past competitions and scores) are huge part of this sport and reputation will always play a role in scores unless someone can invent figure skating robot judges.

  7. #532
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirunna View Post
    Majorly underscored: Kanako. Her 10th place is disgusting,with Korpi, Kostner, Flatt ahead of her. I pray tomorrow she skates her best! Mao's LP is a beauty and I still have hopes for a medal since the scores are so close.
    Yeah, I think Kostner and Korpi should have been behind Kanako and Rachel. I think Kanako and Rachel are slightly even given her UR on her 3T-3T (vs. 3F-2T) and Rachel's 2Z (vs Kanako's 3F)

  8. #533
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    The thing with COP is that often the PCS can compensate for areas of TES which a skater may have made mistakes in. I totally get that Yu-Na's PCS are higher than Miki's, and for good reason (as stated earlier). However, Yu-Na made a big mistake on her 3Lz, while Miki nailed all her jumps. I would totally expect, given their short programs, that Miki would win. She had no mistakes. But COP shortens the margin that should be between skaters and sometimes (like this, or with some of Patrick Chan's efforts last year) even reverses the standings.

    No, it's just not right. Yu-Na was off and she didn't look the part. Not in her dress, not in her program, not in her jumps. Not like she usually does in SPs.

    If you compared it to the 6.0. These things are less likely to occur because judges can say, "Oh, well, I know that Yu-Na is more artistic than Miki, but she had a big mistake. So it has to go to Miki." Can't do the same in COP. Ugh! Frustrating. Hopefully both bring it in the LP and we get a better competition there.

    Sad to say but nearly all the top ladies had major errors, except Miki. This was a sub-par short program.
    Last edited by Marrymeyunakim; 04-29-2011 at 09:25 AM.

  9. #534
    Custom Title ks777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herro View Post
    I really think we need to think about scores on a relative scale instead of saying that a certain skater was over/underscored, because by definition, you need a point of comparison in order for you to be even able to say that someone is over/underscored. Here's one of the main problems with the COP: Yes, Yuna's spins were overscored, but so were Miki's. Is the focus on Yuna's spin scores implying that the GOEs for Miki are justifiable? Yuna's spin scores make sense (more or less) when we compared them in isolation with Miki's. If we compare Yuna and Miki's scores to a spinner like Alissa, then things get confusing.

    With regards to the whole reputations thing - yes it is unfair but there's really nothing we can do about it. Boosted scores (well, for Yuna here I think she was cushioned on the 3Lz but the other GOEs made perfect sense based on her past competitions and scores) are huge part of this sport and reputation will always play a role in scores unless someone can invent figure skating robot judges.
    Do you think Miki's spins are that bad compare to Yuna? I don't. Miki's positions are better.

  10. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Business View Post
    Oh my, someone brought up the fact that Yuna actually got 0.08 higher on the +GOE for her layback spin than Alissa. And her other spins got the exact same +GOE. While I don't think Yuna was overscored, (it did strike me how fast and crisp her spins were when I was watching that SP), Alissa was definitely underscored. She got far less +3 than she normally does on her spins (I did think Alissa's spins were a touch below her normal excellence, but that's only a slight step below Godhood), the judges were being stingy! Still, Alissa got the highest +GOE on spins besides anybody but Yuna.
    This is what I've been trying to say. Reputation plays a role here. It's like the "established" skaters are judged on a different standard (with their own sets of GOEs) while the other skaters have their own standards of GOEs.

    This applies to other skaters who haven't been brought up here yet. Case in point - Phaneuf. Hello?

  11. #536
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    Do you think Miki's spins are that bad compare to Yuna? I don't. Miki's positions are better.
    I'll have to watch them again to decide the difference, but I do think Miki does not get rewarded enough for her new positions.

  12. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I'm sorry, I love Yuna -- but she did not have the same attack she usually does. She was definitely gifted on the spins and they were way higher, even when considering them next to Miki's

    Layback = .49 vs 1.29
    Flying sit spin = .79 vs .71
    Combo sin = .5 vs 1.14

    Yuna's should be higher but not by that much. And the gap Miki does have on the flying sit spin should be a little higher..
    I love Yuna, but Miki was rock solid, Yuna tentative and slow. Yuna's layback is one of the worst I've ever seen. As far as Mao coming back in the LP, I doubt it. I do not think she has the strength to get through 30 secs of skating, let alone 4 plus. I will remember Mao as she was, once upon a time. Perhaps it is time for both Yuna and Mao to move on....both are shadows of what they once were.

  13. #538
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    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    Do you think Miki's spins are that bad compare to Yuna? I don't. Miki's positions are better.
    This is all subjective of course, but I honestly (and I'm trying to really look at the situation objectively here) think Yuna's spins are in general better than Miki's (by how much, I can't quantify, but I do think Yuna has the better overall positions, centering, and speed).

  14. #539
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    he, he, he, it's the CoP

    "I watched the Vancouver Olympics in shock and awe and horror. The new system is as inaccurate and political as the old system."
    Toller Cranston

  15. #540
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    Quote Originally Posted by hybfc View Post
    a judge gave +1 to yuna's lutz. unbelievable
    I wonder what she/he is smoking??? OH yeah probably all those Cuban cigar send to him/her as a gift from the Korean FS commitee (Prob attached with a paycheck too)... * Just wrong.....*

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