Patrick Chan, New World Champ and Record Holder, Can he reach 300 score? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Patrick Chan, New World Champ and Record Holder, Can he reach 300 score?

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Kozuka landed his only successful quad in competion. He had nothing to lose and no pressure on him at that point, being at 6th but just having the door wide open with Dai and Nobu having screwed up. He was able to land a beautiful quad and perform a flawless program.

From my perspective, I thought the pressure on Kozuka was tremendous. Japan, at that point, was about to be shut out of the podium after the mishaps on the part of Oda and Takahashi. The Japanese fans in the arena were visibly nervous and unsettled, almost sound like they were desperate for Kozuka to deliver. I think Kozuka knew exactly what he had to do and letting the country down was not an option - he is after all, the current Japanese National Champion.

What lowered his TES BV was landing his 3 Loops poorly near the end of the program, missing out on the 3T. He had the presence of mind to tack a 2T to the subsequent 2A but missed some BV as well as GOE points. His BV and total TES were much higher at Nationals, which were not out of line relative to his GPF and Worlds scores.

No, that's not correct. Landing his 3Lp poorly didn't affect his BV, only the GOE since it was neither < or <<. At that point, he had no more space for any Triple jump seeing that 3T was already done with the 4T combo and two jumps of 3 revolutions and higher were already repeated (4T and 3Lz). Skater may not repeat more than twice a jump of 3 revolutions or higher. He never intended to do a 3T after the 3Lo - if he did, he would have suffer the same fate as Oda's 3A+3T combo. His total BV is actually largely the same as the Canadian Nationals. His plan was to have a 3Lo+2T combo, which was switched to 2A+2T instead. Where he actually lost ground is in the GOE, hence a lower TES total overall. In fact, if you recall, at the Cup of Russia 2010 in the exact same arena, he committed an Oda-like error by adding a 3T behind his 2A and resulted in the 2A being voided, thus handing Verner the victory.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Your statement is incorrect.

He is about 19 points short of 300.

1) Switching from 3F to 3Lz in the SP would add +0.7 BV
2) Getting Level 4 on CCSp in the SP would add another +0.5 BV
3) Doing one 3A in LP properly and getting an average of +2 GOE, means it goes from -1.57 to +2 = +3.6
4) Getting Level 4 on SlSt in the LP would add +0.60 in BV and doubles the GOE -> +1.29
5) Getting Level 4 on CSSp in the LP would add +0.40 in BV
6) Improve GOE on the 3Lo in the LP to an average of +2, means it goes from +0.1 to +1.4 = +1.3
7) Adding a 4F, replacing the 2A = +12.3 - 2A* (3.3 X 1.1) + 3Lz* (6 X 1.1) - 3Lz (6) = +9.27 in BV. GOE increases from +0.5 to +2.0 assuming +2 GOE = +1.5

Total Improvement = +19.16

280.98 + 19.16 > 300

See, he only needs to add one Quad Flip to the LP. No need to do even 2 Quads in the SP, which is too risky in my opinion - only desperate men would adopt such strategy at this time in the SP.

Getting +2 average in GOE on every jump you do is not realistic.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Getting +2 average in GOE on every jump you do is not realistic.

LOL, did you even bother checking his SP and LP protocol posted? When he lands a jump well, the panel's average is between +2~+3 for big items (e.g. Quad) and around +2 for other Triples. It's only when his landing isn't perfect that he is getting below +2 in GOE. I assure you, my estimation is very realistic. In fact, if he does land 4F, the more appropriate benchmark is to see how his well landed 4T gets scored and they are actaully between +2~+3, so I may in fact have under-estimated his GOE potential just to be on the conservative side.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
No skater does a whole competition where every jump they do is not only clean (which is realistic) but their very best too. Expecting that isnt realistic.
 

Krislite

Medalist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
No skater does a whole competition where every jump they do is not only clean (which is realistic) but their very best too. Expecting that isnt realistic.

But isn't Chan's clean jumps already worth +2 to +3 in the judges eyes? He doesn't need to do his best on every jump, because every clean jump from him is already the best (in terms of GOE) in the judges eyes.

Thus, he needs only a clean performance throughout along with a quad flip to break 300.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
No skater does a whole competition where every jump they do is not only clean (which is realistic) but their very best too. Expecting that isnt realistic.

One way or the other, he won't need 2 Quads in the SP and 4 Quads in the LP as you claimed earlier.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
SkateFiguring, are you trying to downgrade Kozuka's achievement as if it was easier for him than Chan? That's total BS. Chan had a massive, RECORD-SETTING lead after the SP. He surely must have known that he would win the title even if he fell twice in the LP! Kozuka was under immense pressure to deliver, in order to do his country proud, and was certainly not a shoo-in to win his Silver medal after the score Gachinski received (plus he was behind Gachinski after the SP too).
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
SkateFiguring, are you trying to downgrade Kozuka's achievement as if it was easier for him than Chan? That's total BS. Chan had a massive, RECORD-SETTING lead after the SP. He surely must have known that he would win the title even if he fell twice in the LP! Kozuka was under immense pressure to deliver, in order to do his country proud, and was certainly not a shoo-in to win his Silver medal after the score Gachinski received (plus he was behind Gachinski after the SP too).

Not at all. I am extremly happy for him because I've always regarded him as World Champion worthy except for the confidence factor. To have the skate of this event when so many veterans faltered, yes even Chan gave in to his nerves, is such an achievement and a glorious thrill. When somebody, especially a skater like Kozuka who had not been able to showcase his supreme talents in the really big events, to rise up finally at such a major and critical time, he must have gotten into the right mindset, which I think he can try to replicate and have great success regularly from now on.

Speaking of downgrading achievements, aren't you the one tirelessly doing just that since Chan's recording smashing win? Chan not minding falling thinking he's always got the gold medal in his pocket is your constantly assigned mindset to him, which cannot be further from the truth.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
SkateFiguring, are you trying to downgrade Kozuka's achievement as if it was easier for him than Chan? That's total BS. Chan had a massive, RECORD-SETTING lead after the SP. He surely must have known that he would win the title even if he fell twice in the LP! Kozuka was under immense pressure to deliver, in order to do his country proud, and was certainly not a shoo-in to win his Silver medal after the score Gachinski received (plus he was behind Gachinski after the SP too).

Of course, following a record setting skate with an expectation you can equal that must have been some pressure on Chan.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Usually Patrick does an interview with Radio Canada (French CBC) after most competitions but this time there is not as much Canadian media presence due to the reschedule. There are quite a few youtube videos of his interviews in French.

I actual prefer his accent better than the Quebecois one of the interviewer.
 

iluvtodd

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Country
United-States
Congrats to Patrick, Taka, and Artur.

I'm particularly "over the moon" for Taka. The first time we got to see him skate live was at 2007 Skate America (in Reading, PA). Same for Patrick, and we enjoyed them both from that time on.

So glad to see Michal Brezina at these worlds, considering his season of injury and surgery. Very impressed with Ross Miner and Richard Dornbush. I really like Ryan, and hoped that he would finish higher here, with the same electricity as at US Nationals. I really liked Brian Joubert's free skate, just as I did for Europeans.
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Usually Patrick does an interview with Radio Canada (French CBC) after most competitions but this time there is not as much Canadian media presence due to the reschedule. There are quite a few youtube videos of his interviews in French.

I actual prefer his accent better than the Quebecois one of the interviewer.

Really? I'd go to search for his French interviews on Youtube. I like his French accent. I know he could speak French but no idea that he could speak this good.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Really? I'd go to search for his French interviews on Youtube. I like his French accent. I know he could speak French but no idea that he could speak this good.

While you're at it, look for his competition videos with French commentators. Talk about gushing! Even the French French. E.g. Eurosports on his Worlds 2009 SP.

There is a cute one with Patrick and Joannie commenting on each other.

eta Ryan Pyette says it well:

Chan on top of the world

etaa. This is both funny and true, from Clean sweep: Patrick Chan smashes one record after another to win world gold:

"The whole time going into my second quad, I was thinking, how did I do that (first quad)? I felt really off," he said. "Christy now calls me 'Bob,' I'm like a bob in the water, you always find how to stay straight in the air.

I'm so glad Krall turns out so right for him. She is scientific, strict from macro to micro, holistic, and is able to calm Patrick with her humour. She is exactly what Patrick needs at this stage of his skating career. With her and the experiences from the tumultuous last year, he has switched from a hard working extremely talented skater into a supreme athlete and competitor, accessing every inner and outer tools he can to reach this dominating level of excellence. I expect him to rise even higher from here, hopefully incorperating the training and competing well with his studies. That should be the key now.
 
Last edited:

lcd

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
Given the CoP as it stands now, does anyone know what a 'theoretical' MAXIMUM perfect score would be? PCS should be straight forward to calculate plugging in 10's across the board, but all +3 GOEs and the highest possible technical content would be??

Mathman! Help us out! (haha!)
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Mathman already did such a program. He, however, allowed a deduction for nude performance.

My issue with his program is the 10 points for a choreography that backloads 100%.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
My issue with his program is the 10 points for a choreography that backloads 100%.

Miki Ando received a little over 8 in choreography for backloading 75% after resting for nearly 1/4 of the program, so that score sounds like exactly what the judges would award to such a program!
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Here's what a 6.0 judge has to say:

The gold medal was won by Patrick Chan of Canada. He really skated at his best and both the short and the free programs will remain as memorable programs in the history of our sport.

In the short program, he started off with an outstanding quadruple toe-loop/triple toe-loop combination, followed by a perfect triple Axel and a triple flip. The choreography of the program was excellent. At the end of the program it came naturally to me, an old figure skating judge, to write down my marks: 5.9 – 6.0! I am sure Patrick would have liked to see these marks on the score board.

Skated to the “Phantom of the Opera”, his free program was just breathtaking. His first jump was a quadruple toe-loop immediately followed, from the blue, by a fantastic quadruple toe-loop/triple toe-loop combination. He then executed five more triple jumps of the highest technical quality. His only mistake was a step-out on the triple Axel. His spins were excellent as well as the choreography of the program. But what makes him so captivating in presentation is the way he moves his body, his head, his arms, while skating on deep edges. He really flies on the ice. Every movement is wonderful; he really lives his music and makes you perceive his inner feelings. At the end of his program, I was crying. Patrick perfectly represents what I would define as the ideal male skater. Excellent in technique as well as in the artistic side of our beautiful sport, without becoming feminine. Thank you, Patrick, for the intense artistic emotion you gave me.

:rock:
 
Top