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Thread: Patrick Chan, New World Champ and Record Holder, Can he reach 300 score?

  1. #16
    ~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~ Ladskater's Avatar
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    A big congratulations to Patrick. He really earned it. It's kind of a drag that Hockey mad Canada is focused on the Stanley Cup playoffs right now, figure skating coverage will likely be given a back seat to Hockey. I had to watch Patricks gold medal skate on line....

    Wow Patrick!!! I look forward to seeing him at the Stars on Ice tour in a couple of weeks.


  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladskater View Post
    A big congratulations to Patrick. He really earned it. It's kind of a drag that Hockey mad Canada is focused on the Stanley Cup playoffs right now, figure skating coverage will likely be given a back seat to Hockey. I had to watch Patricks gold medal skate on line....

    Wow Patrick!!! I look forward to seeing him at the Stars on Ice tour in a couple of weeks.

    Wasn't it on CBC?

  3. #18
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    I don't really care about hitting 300.

    Candeloro said in an interview that he doesn't see anyone these days able to surpass this record without hitting 3 quads and matching Chan's transitions.

    As long as he is properly judged for everything he does better than the rest of the field, I do not really care about marks.

  4. #19
    I'm out. aftertherain's Avatar
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    After reading wallylutz's and Blades of Passion's analyses, I think Patrick could definitely go past 300 if he upped his jump content a little and shook his program up a bit.

    I also think that if Takahiko Kozuka keeps skating + improving like he did this Worlds, he might just pass the 300 mark as well. Did anyone else notice that Takahiko Kozuka's TES (98+) was more than Patrick's (96+)? And his quad toe got +2.29 GOE vs. Patrick's +1.29 GOE. I think he has great potential to challenge Patrick if he ups his jump content and etc as well.

    I remember one poster here said that he didn't think Kozuka could land his quad toe cleanly or that he would ever get a World medal (though, I could just be making that part up). Well, he got those two parts wrong. At least Takahiko's done it at least once. Here's to hoping there will be many more in the future!

    Congrats to the medalists!

  5. #20
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    Kozuka landed his only successful quad in competion. He had nothing to lose and no pressure on him at that point, being at 6th but just having the door wide open with Dai and Nobu having screwed up. He was able to land a beautiful quad and perform a flawless program.

    Patrick, OTOH, was in a completely different situation, with World Champion title almost his as a truly real possibility, the anxiety and pressure had got to be great. Bravo to him for doing that well though it's nowhere near his Nationals performance. What lowered his TES BV was landing his 3 Loops poorly near the end of the program, missing out on the 3T. He had the presence of mind to tack a 2T to the subsequent 2A but missed some BV as well as GOE points. His BV and total TES were much higher at Nationals, which were not out of line relative to his GPF and Worlds scores.

    This experience should help him at future Worlds to perform closer to his abilities. As it was, it was more than enough this time.

    Patrick's CBC interview
    Last edited by SkateFiguring; 04-29-2011 at 12:07 AM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    Kozuka landed his only successful quad in competion. He had nothing to lose and no pressure on him at that point, being at 6th but just having the door wide open with Dai and Nobu having screwed up. He was able to land a beautiful quad and perform a flawless program.
    From my perspective, I thought the pressure on Kozuka was tremendous. Japan, at that point, was about to be shut out of the podium after the mishaps on the part of Oda and Takahashi. The Japanese fans in the arena were visibly nervous and unsettled, almost sound like they were desperate for Kozuka to deliver. I think Kozuka knew exactly what he had to do and letting the country down was not an option - he is after all, the current Japanese National Champion.

    What lowered his TES BV was landing his 3 Loops poorly near the end of the program, missing out on the 3T. He had the presence of mind to tack a 2T to the subsequent 2A but missed some BV as well as GOE points. His BV and total TES were much higher at Nationals, which were not out of line relative to his GPF and Worlds scores.
    No, that's not correct. Landing his 3Lp poorly didn't affect his BV, only the GOE since it was neither < or <<. At that point, he had no more space for any Triple jump seeing that 3T was already done with the 4T combo and two jumps of 3 revolutions and higher were already repeated (4T and 3Lz). Skater may not repeat more than twice a jump of 3 revolutions or higher. He never intended to do a 3T after the 3Lo - if he did, he would have suffer the same fate as Oda's 3A+3T combo. His total BV is actually largely the same as the Canadian Nationals. His plan was to have a 3Lo+2T combo, which was switched to 2A+2T instead. Where he actually lost ground is in the GOE, hence a lower TES total overall. In fact, if you recall, at the Cup of Russia 2010 in the exact same arena, he committed an Oda-like error by adding a 3T behind his 2A and resulted in the 2A being voided, thus handing Verner the victory.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Your statement is incorrect.

    He is about 19 points short of 300.

    1) Switching from 3F to 3Lz in the SP would add +0.7 BV
    2) Getting Level 4 on CCSp in the SP would add another +0.5 BV
    3) Doing one 3A in LP properly and getting an average of +2 GOE, means it goes from -1.57 to +2 = +3.6
    4) Getting Level 4 on SlSt in the LP would add +0.60 in BV and doubles the GOE -> +1.29
    5) Getting Level 4 on CSSp in the LP would add +0.40 in BV
    6) Improve GOE on the 3Lo in the LP to an average of +2, means it goes from +0.1 to +1.4 = +1.3
    7) Adding a 4F, replacing the 2A = +12.3 - 2A* (3.3 X 1.1) + 3Lz* (6 X 1.1) - 3Lz (6) = +9.27 in BV. GOE increases from +0.5 to +2.0 assuming +2 GOE = +1.5

    Total Improvement = +19.16

    280.98 + 19.16 > 300

    See, he only needs to add one Quad Flip to the LP. No need to do even 2 Quads in the SP, which is too risky in my opinion - only desperate men would adopt such strategy at this time in the SP.
    Getting +2 average in GOE on every jump you do is not realistic.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Getting +2 average in GOE on every jump you do is not realistic.
    LOL, did you even bother checking his SP and LP protocol posted? When he lands a jump well, the panel's average is between +2~+3 for big items (e.g. Quad) and around +2 for other Triples. It's only when his landing isn't perfect that he is getting below +2 in GOE. I assure you, my estimation is very realistic. In fact, if he does land 4F, the more appropriate benchmark is to see how his well landed 4T gets scored and they are actaully between +2~+3, so I may in fact have under-estimated his GOE potential just to be on the conservative side.

  9. #24
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    No skater does a whole competition where every jump they do is not only clean (which is realistic) but their very best too. Expecting that isnt realistic.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    No skater does a whole competition where every jump they do is not only clean (which is realistic) but their very best too. Expecting that isnt realistic.
    But isn't Chan's clean jumps already worth +2 to +3 in the judges eyes? He doesn't need to do his best on every jump, because every clean jump from him is already the best (in terms of GOE) in the judges eyes.

    Thus, he needs only a clean performance throughout along with a quad flip to break 300.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    No skater does a whole competition where every jump they do is not only clean (which is realistic) but their very best too. Expecting that isnt realistic.
    One way or the other, he won't need 2 Quads in the SP and 4 Quads in the LP as you claimed earlier.

  12. #27
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    SkateFiguring, are you trying to downgrade Kozuka's achievement as if it was easier for him than Chan? That's total BS. Chan had a massive, RECORD-SETTING lead after the SP. He surely must have known that he would win the title even if he fell twice in the LP! Kozuka was under immense pressure to deliver, in order to do his country proud, and was certainly not a shoo-in to win his Silver medal after the score Gachinski received (plus he was behind Gachinski after the SP too).

  13. #28
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    Here's a longish audio interview Patrick did in French with Radio-Canada. He always sounds very sweet in French!

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    SkateFiguring, are you trying to downgrade Kozuka's achievement as if it was easier for him than Chan? That's total BS. Chan had a massive, RECORD-SETTING lead after the SP. He surely must have known that he would win the title even if he fell twice in the LP! Kozuka was under immense pressure to deliver, in order to do his country proud, and was certainly not a shoo-in to win his Silver medal after the score Gachinski received (plus he was behind Gachinski after the SP too).
    Not at all. I am extremly happy for him because I've always regarded him as World Champion worthy except for the confidence factor. To have the skate of this event when so many veterans faltered, yes even Chan gave in to his nerves, is such an achievement and a glorious thrill. When somebody, especially a skater like Kozuka who had not been able to showcase his supreme talents in the really big events, to rise up finally at such a major and critical time, he must have gotten into the right mindset, which I think he can try to replicate and have great success regularly from now on.

    Speaking of downgrading achievements, aren't you the one tirelessly doing just that since Chan's recording smashing win? Chan not minding falling thinking he's always got the gold medal in his pocket is your constantly assigned mindset to him, which cannot be further from the truth.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    SkateFiguring, are you trying to downgrade Kozuka's achievement as if it was easier for him than Chan? That's total BS. Chan had a massive, RECORD-SETTING lead after the SP. He surely must have known that he would win the title even if he fell twice in the LP! Kozuka was under immense pressure to deliver, in order to do his country proud, and was certainly not a shoo-in to win his Silver medal after the score Gachinski received (plus he was behind Gachinski after the SP too).
    Of course, following a record setting skate with an expectation you can equal that must have been some pressure on Chan.

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