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Thread: How would you have scored/ranked the MEN at Worlds?

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    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    How would you have scored/ranked the MEN at Worlds?

    I must say that this was a very impressive competition. The depth in Men's Figure Skating is wonderful to see. Although I've talked about how the artistry on display was underwhelming (great Skating Skills and Transitions do not equal great performance/choreography/interpretation), there is no doubt that this was technically one the strongest Men's competition EVER.

    Here are my rankings. If people want to get into full-on protocol breakdowns where we score each element and give PCS marks, I welcome it and will also join in.

    01. Patrick Chan (1st SP, 2nd LP)
    02. Takahiko Kozuka (5th SP, 1st LP)
    03. Artur Gachinski (4th SP, 3rd LP)
    04. Nobunari Oda (3rd SP, 4th LP)
    05. Daisuke Takahashi (2nd SP, 10th LP)
    06. Ross Miner (9th SP, 5th LP) - So underscored! A technically sound 8-Triple program and very well structured choreography with many lovely moments, performed with commitment. By far the best American at the event.
    07. Michal Brezina (7th SP, 8th LP)
    08. Florent Amodio (6th SP, 11th LP)
    09. Brian Joubert (12th SP, 7th LP)
    10. Javier Fernandez (15th SP, 6th LP)
    11. Richard Dornbush (11th SP, 9th LP)
    12. Ryan Bradley (10th SP, 12th LP)
    13. Tomas Verner (8th SP, 14th LP)
    14. Peter Liebers (14th SP, 13th LP)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    I must say that this was a very impressive competition. The depth in Men's Figure Skating is wonderful to see. Although I've talked about how the artistry on display was underwhelming (great Skating Skills and Transitions do not equal great performance/choreography/interpretation), there is no doubt that this was technically one the strongest Men's competition EVER.

    Here are my rankings. If people want to get into full-on protocol breakdowns where we score each element and give PCS marks, I welcome it and will also join in.

    01. Patrick Chan (1st SP, 2nd LP)
    02. Takahiko Kozuka (5th SP, 1st LP)
    03. Artur Gachinski (4th SP, 3rd LP)
    04. Nobunari Oda (3rd SP, 4th LP)
    05. Daisuke Takahashi (2nd SP, 10th LP)
    06. Ross Miner (9th SP, 5th LP) - So underscored! A technically sound 8-Triple program and very well structured choreography with many lovely moments, performed with commitment. By far the best American at the event.
    07. Michal Brezina (7th SP, 8th LP)
    08. Florent Amodio (6th SP, 11th LP)
    09. Brian Joubert (12th SP, 7th LP)
    10. Javier Fernandez (15th SP, 6th LP)
    11. Richard Dornbush (11th SP, 9th LP)
    12. Ryan Bradley (10th SP, 12th LP)
    13. Tomas Verner (8th SP, 14th LP)
    14. Peter Liebers (14th SP, 13th LP)
    I would need to rewatch all the performances to know for sure but I can already say I definitely did not think Gachinski deserved the bronze. His PCS were out of whack, higher than many men they should have been lower than, and he got generous GOE all over the place.

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    Chan is so undeserving of his LP win, perhaps you should lodge a complaint to ISU hoping them to strip Chan of this world record breaking win. LOL.

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    I think you are blinded by patriotism, Blades. Miner's program was so simple choreographically with mostly crossovers in between the jumps. I agree that he skated beautifully and perfectly. But with the CoP standard, he could not possibly be in 5th in LP. Brezina's LP actually was not that bad as some of the posts described. I think Brezina deserved high up there somewhere. I haven't had a chance to actually list them in order yet. But Ross Miner should definitely not be in 6th in final standing and 5th in LP.
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 04-29-2011 at 05:41 PM.

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    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    I don't want to rank because I'm not good at scoring. However, I do want to make a few comments in general:

    - I'm glad that the current CoP has achieved (partly) in encouraging more quads. You can see that technically, the male figure skaters were capable of competing at this level but hadn't been for a few years, and yes, I do think the quad is important in men's skating.

    - The frontrunner is also responsible for encouraging the push of the technical. As the current top male skater is Patrick Chan, I am glad his commitment to learning and doing the quad forces others to attempt--and land--quads in order to also be in the running. Patrick Chan has also accomplished another thing: not forcing us to choose between jumps and skating skills. Since he is now demonstrably strong at both, there is no more dichotomy and debate as to what's more important than the other. Both technical skills are vital.

    - What I find myself hoping for now is artistry and soul. I mentioned this before, but I said it earlier: male skaters peak later than women skaters partly because their technical demands are higher and require more years of training, it looks like. I hope to see our current male skaters continue to develop in this regard. CoP makes no specific demands on this dimension of skating. I found myself most excited by Jason Brown's LP this season, and I re-watched my favourite men's program ever, Alexei Yagudin's Gladiator. Performances like those are still very rare. But, I have hope that there will be more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fscric View Post
    Chan is so undeserving of his LP win, perhaps you should lodge a complaint to ISU hoping them to strip Chan of this world record breaking win. LOL.
    Too late. Skate Canada received official confirmation from the Guinness folks today.

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    I would have left 1 and 2 as is, the bronze I would likely give to someone else but I need to rewatch before I decide who.

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    One and Two were justified. The Third was quesionable because it was all about Jumps. Although his jumps were fine, I really did not see much else going for him. Angry posing throughout the footwork sequence; barely exceptable spinning, and absolutely nothing special about being musical. One might consider overscoring in the PCs, which is totally opinions as anyone can have.

    Who could have been third?
    Brezina is the best all round skater, imo, but he was not at his best, and 2 Falls will never be forgiveable for me.
    Oda was not at his best either.
    Miner was terrific, but what was his SP scores, could he have pulled himself up to a bronze? I dunno.

    I would put Joubert or Miner, and possibly Fernando as a Bronze, and have Gachinsky in 6th.

    The real problem now, is that he is a Contender for Gold in Sochi. ThatCorridor Regulation will scare the judges into keeping him safe for podium at least.

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    Brezina is most definitely NOT the most all-around skater. His spins still leave much to desire and his skating skills aren't as good as many others (i.e. Chan and Kozuka both of whom also have better spins). His choreography also isn't that great - there's a lot of room for improvement.

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    Custom Title mikiandorocks's Avatar
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    Am I the only one that thinks that every skater in the top 10 was correctly placed?
    Joubert, Oda, Kozuka and Taka are my personal favorites. I would love to see them all on the podium. Guess what? There are only 3 medals. So we just have to deal with it. Chan was correctly awarded with the gold medal.
    Kozuka was correctly awarded with the silver medal
    Artur was correctly awarded with the bronze medal.
    We can feel that some skaters have more potential than others but if they don't deliver when it matters than there's not really anything to whine about.

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    I guess I'm fine with the overall results because Takahashi faltered and Oda failed at math again. But Takahiko should have had much higher PCS. I would have given him the LP win too.

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    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    I think you are blinded by patrioticism, Blades. Miner's program was so simple choreographically with mostly crossovers in between the jumps.
    Doesn't have anything to do with Patriotism. I completely disagree with your assesment of his choreography. Miner's program had something inbetween EVERY jumping pass. To begin with, he started the program off with a step sequence before going into the jumps (and look at how perfectly those first two jumping passes go with the music). He did a long series of steps and hops before his both his second Triple Axel and second Triple Lutz. He did an entire spread eagle sequence and stayed in the final spread eagle position directly into his Salchow combination. He did his second footwork sequence much earlier in the program than everyone else normally does, with many technical elements still left to execute. After that step sequence he put steps going into his 3Flip and then did a spin instead of going directly into his last jumping pass.

    The entire program was completely structured to the music and that was wonderful to see. It was a far cry from the standard "open with 3 jumping passes and then do another 5 jumping passes right after the halfway mark" that has become so common place in programs these days.

    It was better than both Evan Lysacek and Johnny Weir at the Olympics last year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    It was better than both Evan Lysacek and Johnny Weir at the Olympics last year.
    Better than Olympic gold medalist? Then what could be more suitable than platinum medal for Miner? (kidding)

    Miner's program was similar to Weir's Olympics program. It wasn't really CoP friendly. I could agree that he must have been a little victim of corridor. But to jump from judge's 11th place up to the 5th place? Miner's BV was only 70.67. The lowest BV in the top 5 was 72.96.

    For the top two, I'd give Chan -1 GOE on the first 4T and -3 GOE for his 3A. Which could take off 3.72 points from his TES to make his LP 184.24. Chan still has a considerable cushion over Kozuka. I feel that there is no need to change any other GOEs that judges gave to him. Chan's tech BV was actually 1.29 higher than Kozuka's. Chan's PCS is rightfully placed higher than Kozuka's. So their LP order won't change.
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 04-30-2011 at 12:33 AM.

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    Tripping on the Podium
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    I must say I was facsinated by Gachinsky, being that he must be the first human clone. This kid desperately needs to find his own identity. It was kind of sad and cringe-worthy for me watching his LP. It's too bad so many others faltered because this will give Gachinsky positive reinforcement that he's on the right track and his skating skills and musical interpretation will likely remain nonexistent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy View Post
    I must say I was facsinated by Gachinsky, being that he must be the first human clone. This kid desperately needs to find his own identity. It was kind of sad and cringe-worthy for me watching his LP. It's too bad so many others faltered because this will give Gachinsky positive reinforcement that he's on the right track and his skating skills and musical interpretation will likely remain nonexistent.
    No, no, no, you are so mistaken! Gachinsky and Plushenko are distinctly different: Plushenko holds up his "number one" finger after his jumps. Gachinsky raises his arms after his.

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