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Thread: Did the USFS Send the Right Mens Team to Worlds?

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Did the USFS Send the Right Mens Team to Worlds?

    The argument has been that the USFS should use the Results of their Nationals. It is the fairest way for all skaters to have a chance at skating in a Worlds competition. The USFS doesn't mull over who would make up the best team - just the fairest team.

    The best male skaters we had are/were Rippon and Abbott. They didn't make the USFS cut because of faulty skating at Nationals. A semi retired skater won the Nationals followed by two young inexperienced senior skaters. The three earned the honor based on the one competion takes the prize. No need to look into past results.

    The USFS is now down to One spot for the next Worlds.
    The results at Worlds shows that only one young inexperienced man earned a spot in the top 10 at place no. 8. The question is could Rippon or Abbott have placed 5th for keeping 3 spots?

    We also have a young man who did not place 10th which would have given the USFS Two spots.

    What if Armin wins next year's Nationals? and he could, he is an up and coming skater. Does that mean he is the best skater? That would leave out Jeremy, Adam, Richard and Ross to be considered for the Team.

    Should the USFS look into changing the regulation that the best choice is not necessarily the fairest choice? If your answer is yes, what would be the best method for sending their best skater? Other Feds do not rely on one competition.

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    Tripping on the Podium
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    They made a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig mistake. No bueno. Jeremy or Adam, on a good day, could have won the bronze medal at this worlds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    ....The USFS is now down to One spot for the next Worlds....
    Can you please explain how this is? I thought with a 9th (Dornbush) and 11th (Miner) that would mean two spots for next year's worlds. Was there a rule change?

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    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrmsk8ngnutt View Post
    Can you please explain how this is? I thought with a 9th (Dornbush) and 11th (Miner) that would mean two spots for next year's worlds. Was there a rule change?
    You are right and US Men have two spots for next season.

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    I think we send the right guys to worlds. Abbott and Rippon didn't bring it at nationals therefore they didn't deserve to go to worlds. simple as that.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
    You are right and US Men have two spots for next season.
    Quote Originally Posted by hrmsk8ngnutt View Post
    Can you please explain how this is? I thought with a 9th (Dornbush) and 11th (Miner) that would mean two spots for next year's worlds. Was there a rule change?
    Mea Culpa. I read in a previous post that the US did not qualify for 3 - obvious; that Dornbush placed 8th and Miner 12th. I haven't checked those results, so maybe I was making rash statement because I do not like the Results of Nats as the sole reason for making the team

    BT the way, since my point is about the method with naming the Team, what do you think of keeping the Nats Results as forming the Team?

    could Rippon or Abbott placed higher than Gachinsky?
    Last edited by Joesitz; 04-29-2011 at 02:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    BT the way, since my point is about the method with naming the Team, what do you think of keeping the Nats Results as forming the Team?
    It works when the skaters are consistent and the judges do the job well by international standard. Otherwise......

    could Rippon or Abbott placed higher than Gachinsky?
    They could and they should if they performed to their abilities. But look, even Takahashi and Oda dropped way down on the day. The ice is slippery, as usual, as always.

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    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    It works when the skaters are consistent and the judges do the job well by international standard. Otherwise......



    They could and they should if they performed to their abilities. But look, even Takahashi and Oda dropped way down on the day. The ice is slippery, as usual, as always.
    I think Canada may have sent the wrong team. Hard to belive they won the WC and still could not qualify for three spots. I can't ever recall that happening to USA.

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    Kevin Reynolds has an injury and a bad season. His season was over when he got called for Worlds with just 3 weeks to ease back into competition condition. Due to his injury, he cut back a quad in the SP but still went for 2 quads and all the hard jumps in the LP. Hey, Reynolds and Chan man enough for ya?

    Don't worry. Or go ahead and worry. Canada always has one or two Worlds medalist and at least another one in waiting. We just don't have a bunch of wannabes.

    This year we have both Senior and Junior Men World Champions.

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    Jeremy hadn't been getting great technical scores this season and with the way Adam's been struggling with his 3A, there was definitely no guarantee that they would have kept 3 spots. I really think we would have been down to 2 spots no matter what. It's not the end of the world. We could get them back before the next Olympics.

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    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    Kevin Reynolds has an injury and a bad season. His season was over when he got called for Worlds with just 3 weeks to ease back into competition condition. Due to his injury, he cut back a quad in the SP but still went for 2 quads and all the hard jumps in the LP. Hey, Reynolds and Chan man enough for ya?

    Don't worry. Or go ahead and worry. Canada always has one or two Worlds medalist and at least another one in waiting. We just don't have a bunch of wannabes.

    This year we have both Senior and Junior Men World Champions.
    \\


    Sorry but Canada has exactly zero OGM's for Men. USA has seven.

    Get back to me if Chan can win Canada's 1st Mens' OGM in 2014. That will make it a much more respectable 7-1.
    Last edited by janetfan; 04-29-2011 at 05:27 PM.

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    Put it this way, if Russia had followed the same way that USFS decides who gets to send to the World Championship, Gachinsky would not have his chance to go since he didn't win Russian Nationals and Russia had only one spot for 2011 Worlds.

    The reason why Gachinsky was sent at the end was due to superior results at the Europeans. Given that Abbott actually medaled at the 4CC, equivalent of the Europeans, and placed better than Kozuka who is now the World Silver Medalist, it's conceivable that Abbott could have much better results than the 1 man and 2 boys team that USFS sent.

    Sending Dornbush was not in question, it was the decision to send Ross Miner over Abbott that was hotly contested. Given that Dornbush finished 9th, it was conceivable that should Abbott ended up in the final group, the U.S. certainly could have a much better chance of getting the magic number 13.

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    to Wally's analysis.

    What would Bradley have placed at the Nationals if the Tech Panel were strict as at Worlds, which they should be since the Nationals was the QR for Worlds? Then maybe the US would have sent the right team.

    To be prestigeous and fit as the qualification for Worlds, US Nationals need to adopt the Worlds standard in judging. When there is a big discrepancy between international and national results, something is not all right and it does not bode well for optimal results at Worlds.

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    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    to Wally's analysis.

    What would Bradley have placed at the Nationals if the Tech Panel were strict as at Worlds, which they should be since the Nationals was the QR for Worlds? Then maybe the US would have sent the right team.

    To be prestigeous and fit as the qualification for Worlds, US Nationals need to adopt the Worlds standard in judging. When there is a big discrepancy between international and national results, something is not all right and it does not bode well for optimal results at Worlds.
    As Mathman and others note earlier, perhaps optimal results at Worlds is not the priority of USFS. Sure it's nice to get world medals and it does raise our profile to the world, but it's not an essential function that ensures the long-term sustainability of figure skating in the United States. (Though I know some would point out that successful world teams does get more television coverage..)

    I also think that 2 spots does not always mean less success. The U.S. Ladies only two spots in 1994 because of Nancy's bad FS (and Lisa Ervin's 13th place and Tonia K not qualifying). Obviously we all know what happened, but besides that incident Nancy still managed to get the silver medal. Of course that's a terrible example for the Nationals only world team selection because of what happened, but it does point to the fact that more entries don't mean better results.

    To be honest, I don't think anyone USFSA is loosing much sleep over this.

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    I think another problem is determining who to cut. Ryan's SP at Nats was one of the best skates of his life; IMO, he deserved the Nat title. Therefore, under the existing rules, he would not have been the one cut. Usually, the bronze medalist would be cut, but I think it would be unfair to "punish" Ross Miner for bringing it on in the Nats FS to win bronze by ending his season prematurely -- which would have happened if he wasn't sent to Sr Worlds since he was age ineligible for Jr Worlds. IMO, both Ross and Ricky did well for themselves ... and getting two promising young skaters with the mental toughness will stand the US well. I also am not so sure that Adam or Jeremy would have done any better.

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