Ladies - Long Program | Page 27 | Golden Skate

Ladies - Long Program

Kwanford Wife

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
I understand now. I can see why you would think I had animosity towards Yu Na. So let me put my remark in context. I don't like it when skaters, which include the Men's, Dance and Pairs when they decide to skip the whole season just to do the WC/Olympics unless it's due to injury. Yu Na is certainly not the 1st person trying to do that, but those who do and are not injured, seem to demonstrate some kind of contempt for this sport - that they are too good for you. Well, you can't possibly be too good in this sport, it's a dynamic environment. If Patrick Chan does that next season, I'll just say the same thing as well and expect him to do poorly at WC. The reality is virtually anyone who tried to pull this off since the modern era of skating, they all did poorly in the WC/Olympics. Hence, the smart ones, usually old veterans doing a comeback, e.g. Plushenko & Shen/Zhao last year, they all put themselves through the fires of competitions before the actual big event. By doing so, they are also signaling a respect for their competitors, which to me is important in this sport because we are not hockey or soccer, in this sport, we need to treat each other with respect and that includes competing.

Good save Wally and on one hand I totally agree about the need to compete the whole season unless due to an injury. However, I don't blame the skaters or think they're being disrespectful. I blame the system.

The ISU and the federations allow skaters to skip seasons and appear at big events to ensure ticket sales & drama with little to no regard to the individual skaters. Yuna simply took advantage of this loop-hole. And let's keep it real - a silver with a few points to spare after a long break from competition ice speaks volumns about the talent level that Yuna brings to the table.

Now what I thoroughly disagree with is the comparison to soccer and hockey... These sports DO NOT allow teams to simply show up for championships and to imply differently is kinda dumb. Last time I checked, the Detroit Red Wings and Barcelona need to play week in & week out to earn their berths while competiting with passion, integrity and respect. If we want figure skating to be taken seriously as a sport populated with strong atheletes, we as fans need to start treating it as such and leave the lord of the manor attitudes at home.
 
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magicalwords

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
As in the SP, Yuna's LP worked the best for me. The music and choreography were very pleasing. However, I don't agree that she should have gotten +3 GOEs for her 3-3; in fact, I don't feel that any of her jumps should have received highly positive GOEs because they were far below her usual standard.
I guess people see different things! Aside from the mistakes...
I couldn't tell from the stream, but looking at more high quality version of her program, I thought her 3-3 was one of the best 3-3s she's ever done and her solo 3Lz was just as massive as well. Her delayed 3Lz in 3-3 combination was simply marvelous. :love:

I see that there's already a YT video of her 3-3 combos including this WC one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHNrbqXcR98&feature=player_detailpage#t=83s

OTOH while I didn't feel much for her SP I agree that her LP was great. Music, her connectivity to music, and definitely her costume...
 

Krislite

Medalist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
I'm disappointed by this Worlds for the ladies. Nearly everyone skated well below their potential and just lacked energy. Perhaps the season lasted too long. Everyone peaked for March and it was just a struggle to regroup.

Mao just looked like she had no strength in her body left. She looked so thin and fragile. It must have been so tough for her.

As for Yuna, not her best nor her worst Worlds performance. It's silver for her but disappointing considering her true potential and that she lost to Miki (still can't quite get over the fact that she's now two time world champ). Still, I guess I'm OK with the scores in that the judges pretty much put Yuna's crappy SP and OK LP (by Yuna's standard) as just about on par with the best from Miki Ando. Heh.

I do wonder which of our dominant trio (Miki, Mao and Yuna) will retire first and who will continue on to Soichi. I think Mao has the strongest motivation of the three, and Miki the least now that she's won two world titles and will be too old for Soichi. As for for Yuna, it's amazing she's still competing after her Olympic victory. There must be something in her motivating this and it could just push her to continue, possibly even up to Soichi 2014.

Oh, and as the skate gods would have it Yuna continues her streak of never finishing off the podium. Some people (e.g., wallylutz) will say she was lucky this time, considering the poor performance or absence of others, but competition is not about what ifs, but what is.
 

Kwanford Wife

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Man, what a major disappointment this competition was for me.

First, give credit where it's due and congrats to Ando for her 2nd world championship. Great thing for Japan especially given what happened.

Now...I don't know what happened to Flatt. Apparently she was injured or something...what a mess. Not quite as bad as the GPF, but somewhat of an embarrassment. After thinking about it, she probably should have withdrawn- unless it was something that JUST happened in the last couple of days. But I'm hearing that's not the case, and she was having trouble as early as last week. Ugh...so tough to watch.

At least Czisny saved herself from similar disaster by pulling herself together after the initial fall. Actually, I was somewhat impressed by her resilience, given that in the past, starting out with a mistake would have doomed her for sure. Still though, that fall ended up costing her a medal. Considering her history, she did pretty well. But the woulda-shoulda-coulda part of me keeps thinking what if- she was so close to that bronze...still disappointed.

And Kostner did NOT deserve that bronze by a long shot. It should have gone to Leonova, who was head-and-shoulders above Kostner today. Kim was somewhat overscored, again- although 2nd place was probably about right in this case.

Too bad about Asada- I really thought she would fight back, but looks like the extended season took quite a toll on her.

That's all I have to say. Probably need to cool off a bit now

I'm with you RD... Nothing worse than a big ol' splatfest at Worlds to close out the season...sigh... But between the delays, venue changes, and whatnot are you really surprised?

Poor Flatt... its almost lucky that this Worlds will not have long term impact because it was mostly ignored between Japan and the Royal Wedding. Maybe, if she's lucky, she will be forgiven by the crazies quickly and not subjected to an entire summer of "ITS ALL HER FAULT!" threads that Alissa was subjected to when she had a less than stellar Worlds... And maybe this will provide MiRai with a wakeup call as she prepares for next year - sometimes a dose of "I coulda shoulda woulda done better" is just what a person's psyche needs in this world where we try to pretend that regrets have no value.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I was wondering where you were!!! Yeah, I have the same mixed feelings about Alissa, it can't be helped. Sure she is feeling much the same way. I can't believe Rachael was 14th!!!! How crushing for her... what is there to say. I really can't see her resurecting her career. But what do I know... and Alissa did, so...

Mike's gold really is great for Japan.

I decided to stick to Twitter for the live coverage. Was live-tweeting the event so that's where I was. I'd figure I'd come to GS only to post more detailed thoughts.

Flatt was 14th in the free skate, but 12th overall. Still, imagine that Flatt & Czisny virtually switched positions from 2009 to 2011- crazy talk. I just don't know why Flatt competed...oh well, but that's for another thread...if someone else doesn't start it, maybe I will.
 

museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
Poor Flatt... its almost lucky that this Worlds will not have long term impact because it was mostly ignored between Japan and the Royal Wedding. Maybe, if she's lucky, she will be forgiven by the crazies quickly and not subjected to an entire summer of "ITS ALL HER FAULT!" threads that Alissa was subjected to when she had a less than stellar Worlds...

Don't count on it, this is Rachael Flatt we are talking about here. She had a world of very vocal haters when she was known as "Reliable Rachael." Now that "IT'S ALL HER FAULT!", can you imagine the number of trolls who are going to rear their ugly heads? And there's going to be the crying that if she knew she was this injured and unable to do her best, then she should have withdrawn so that Nagasu could have had a chance to help get those 3 spots. I shudder the thought and feel very badly for the poor girl.
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
I'm with you RD... Nothing worse than a big ol' splatfest at Worlds to close out the season...sigh... But between the delays, venue changes, and whatnot are you really surprised?

Poor Flatt... its almost lucky that this Worlds will not have long term impact because it was mostly ignored between Japan and the Royal Wedding. Maybe, if she's lucky, she will be forgiven by the crazies quickly and not subjected to an entire summer of "ITS ALL HER FAULT!" threads that Alissa was subjected to when she had a less than stellar Worlds... And maybe this will provide MiRai with a wakeup call as she prepares for next year - sometimes a dose of "I coulda shoulda woulda done better" is just what a person's psyche needs in this world where we try to pretend that regrets have no value.

Lord, I hope not. If anything this just shows that a meltdown can happen to anyone and at this point who are we really going to blame for having just two spots? Alissa had her meltdowns, Rachael had hers, Mirai had hers and the whole team in 2008 had theirs. So I really hope there isn't too much tedious talk of Mirai or whoever should have been sent because there is NO guarantee that Mirai would have done well either.
 

hikki

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Country
Japan
She was happy for Miki, said that the 1st place is well deserved and agreed with judges when she saw Yuna scores. She gave Miki a lot of compliments.

Thanks! I was curious as to what Irina might have said in her commentary. She looks stunning btw!

Congrats to Miki!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Loved Carolina's program the best.
Yu-na's spins and steps were fab (even better than last season), but her basic stroking was not to her usual standard and I think it showed, affecting her entries into jumps e.g. 3flip, etc.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
...And there's going to be the crying that if [Flatt] knew she was this injured and unable to do her best, then she should have withdrawn so that Nagasu could have had a chance to help get those 3 spots.

I won't be shy, I'll come out and say right now that I'm one of those people. However, I don't think that Nagasu's presence would have meant 3 spots automatically. For all I know, she could have had a repeat of 2010 worlds and performed completely uninspired and embarrassed herself as well. BUT- Like Kwan did in Torino, I really think that if Flatt KNEW she couldn't perform up to snuff, she should have WD for the benefit of Team USA. It's one thing if the injury happened during the competition, but sounds like it was bothering her as early as last week- we don't know if there were issues before then. (Also, there's the issue of whether Nagasu would have been prepared anyway, even if she was called upon)
 

wallow

Spectator
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Don't count on it, this is Rachael Flatt we are talking about here. She had a world of very vocal haters when she was known as "Reliable Rachael." Now that "IT'S ALL HER FAULT!", can you imagine the number of trolls who are going to rear their ugly heads? And there's going to be the crying that if she knew she was this injured and unable to do her best, then she should have withdrawn so that Nagasu could have had a chance to help get those 3 spots. I shudder the thought and feel very badly for the poor girl.

I don't think Rachel will be subjected to these kinds of threads that Alissa was. Alissa was already on thin ice with people because her win at nationals that year was controversial and her 11th place finish didn't help matters at all.
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
I won't be shy, I'll come out and say right now that I'm one of those people. However, I don't automatically think that Nagasu's presence would have meant 3 spots automatically. For all I know, she could have had a repeat of 2010 worlds and performed completely uninspired and embarrassed herself as well. BUT- Like Kwan did in Torino, I really think that if Flatt KNEW she couldn't perform up to snuff, she should have WD for the benefit of Team USA. It's one thing if the injury happened during the competition, but sounds like it was bothering her as early as last week- we don't know if there were issues before then. (Also, there's the issue of whether Nagasu would have been prepared anyway, even if she was called upon)

We don't have any reliable medal contenders anyway so who cares that much about the three spots? Three spots is nice but I don't think it would significantly improve our chances of winning a medal. Three spots wouldn't have helped Alissa not fall this time. Three spots wouldn't have guaranteed that Mirai wouldn't have freaked after being first in the SP.
I'm glad Rachael competed at what could be her last worlds. (maybe, maybe not.) It's not like she's out there trying to save babies. It's just a spot.
Anway, I guess I just can't help but think of figure skating as an individualistic sport more than a team sport. As a fan, I admit I pay attention to the USA skaters a lot but in the end if I prefer a foreign skater I'd much rather see that person on the podium that an American skater who I think isn't so great.
 
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Symmetry

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
...By doing so, they are also signaling a respect for their competitors, which to me is important in this sport because we are not hockey or soccer, in this sport, we need to treat each other with respect and that includes competing.

I would agree if you simply say that the absence of star skaters hurt the popularity of the sport.

However, your definition of showing "respect" to the sport and other competitors is simply ridiculous. Skaters skip the competitions because they are simply not ready due to the various reasons. It could be injury, emotional breakdown, finance, school, etc. Those athletes respect this sport more than anyone here; they devote their young life to the sport. What are you really talking about? Without them, there is no sport! They certainly deserve better respect from you.. If they need more time to prepare for the next big event, they should do it on their own terms.
 
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Kwanford Wife

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
I know what you're saying but I believe that, factually, Miki Ando is constantly overscord if you compare the scores she received on her spins to the scores other competitors received and the PCS she received with the program she skated. It's not my opinion but rather a facual analysis of the difficulty and quality of what she executed, just as it is not an opinion that a Triple Axel is factually the hardest Triple a person can execute. Jumps have set base values that differentiate them and thus judges are at least partially objective with regards to their scoring because they are forced to be. Spins, however, have the exact same base value. Every Level 4 spin is the same, according to the rules, even though a certain Level 4 spin might actually be 10x harder than another Level 4 spin (that's where GOE is supposed to come in to differentiate them).

Similarly, it is a fact that Miki Ando's program has a 40 second rest section where she doesn't do anything aside from completely basic movements. CoP is supposed to give the programs credit and evaluate both their choreographic difficulty and effectiveness (that second part is subjective, the first part is relatively not); Miki Ando's program hardly deserves the scores it receives.

Now, that's more like it. I simply cannot tolerate when you go all crazy uber-fied, "wuz robbed!" It would be like reading a RD statement gushing over a skater. I cannot handle that much change in a world gone crazy...But in terms of Miki winning: nah nah nah na na! my favorite won & yours blew bubbles!

I'm so mature, I can't stand it!!!:p:p
 
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janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
I won't be shy, I'll come out and say right now that I'm one of those people. However, I don't think that Nagasu's presence would have meant 3 spots automatically. For all I know, she could have had a repeat of 2010 worlds and performed completely uninspired and embarrassed herself as well. BUT- Like Kwan did in Torino, I really think that if Flatt KNEW she couldn't perform up to snuff, she should have WD for the benefit of Team USA. It's one thing if the injury happened during the competition, but sounds like it was bothering her as early as last week- we don't know if there were issues before then. (Also, there's the issue of whether Nagasu would have been prepared anyway, even if she was called upon)

I hadn't heard anything about this "injury" but did just read an article at IN where Rachael said she was in her best shape of the season, that Lori had tweaked her programs, the delay had actually helped her training, and she felt physically and mentally ready to skate her best.

Comments from Tom Z were similar and both said the field was wide open. Turns out only the bronze was wide open and Alissa gave it a pretty good shot.

It is a shame if Rachael just picked up an injury but that's just part of sports.
And as the saying goes, "there is always next season." :)
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
I hadn't heard anything about this "injury" but did just read an article at IN where Rachael said she was in her best shape of the season, that Lori had tweaked her programs, the delay had actually helped her training, and she felt physically and mentally ready to skate her best.

Comments from Tom Z were similar and both said the field was wide open. Turns out only the bronze was wide open and Alissa gave it a pretty good shot.

It is a shame if Rachael just picked up an injury but that's just part of sports.
And as the saying goes, "there is always next season." :)

Well, she said after her SP that her leg was hurting but that could easily have cropped up just in the last days. In which case, I highly doubt Mirai would have been able to rush to Moscow and be in such great shape that she would have won the blessed 3rd spot anyway.
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
I hope that various skating federations will take a real hard look at the scores for Russian skaters (especially Gachinski and Leonova) in this competitions and complain about judging, otherwise this will repeat at the Olympics. Leonova got way too high PCS, especially in transitions. They were higher than e.g those of Korpi and Czisny!!!
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Well, she said after her SP that her leg was hurting but that could easily have cropped up just in the last days. In which case, I highly doubt Mirai would have been able to rush to Moscow and be in such great shape that she would have won the blessed 3rd spot anyway.

I am not obsessed with three spots and agree that if Rachael picked up a last minute injury little could be done but for her to try and skate through it. Skaters have been doing that for decades.
 
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R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I don't think Rachel will be subjected to these kinds of threads that Alissa was. Alissa was already on thin ice with people because her win at nationals that year was controversial and her 11th place finish didn't help matters at all.

And to top it off, Olympic spots aren't on the line this year like they were the year Czisny blew it.

We don't have any reliable medal contenders anyway so who cares that much about the three spots? Three spots is nice but I don't think it would significantly improve our chances of winning a medal. Three spots wouldn't have helped Alissa not fall this time. Three spots wouldn't have guaranteed that Mirai wouldn't have freaked after being first in the SP.
I'm glad Rachael competed at what could be her last worlds. (maybe, maybe not.) It's not like she's out there trying to save babies. It's just a spot.
Anway, I guess I just can't help but think of figure skating as an individualistic sport more than a team sport. As a fan, I admit I pay attention to the USA skaters a lot but in the end if I prefer a foreign skater I'd much rather see that person on the podium that an American skater who I think isn't so great.

Good points and your position is admirable. Personally, I like to see team USA do well, considering I'm from there- but some people seem to think Czisny should have won bronze and I don't agree with that.

I was at first skeptical about our chances when the team was announced...then after recent quotes from both Czisny and Flatt, and the results from the short, I had slightly elevated hopes. Then I heard about Flatt's injury last night and I started getting worried. Seems like the fears were justified. And that short wasn't even Rachel's best...ugh.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I hope that various skating federations will take a real hard look at the scores for Russian skaters (especially Gachinski and Leonova) in this competitions and complain about judging, otherwise this will repeat at the Olympics. Leonova got way too high PCS, especially in transitions. They were higher than e.g those of Korpi and Czisny!!!

Well, they could have easily placed Leonova high enough to get bronze, and I don't think there would have been outcry- but they didn't.
 

CassAgain

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 27, 2004
I was hoping for three spots because it would show progression the the U.S. program and give another skater the chance for world experience. As much as the men couldn't really compete this year, I think that having both Minor and Dornbush (always want to say Thornbush) get to participte is great for their future careers.
 
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