Ladies - Long Program | Page 36 | Golden Skate

Ladies - Long Program

Joined
Jul 11, 2003
I had tears in my eyes watching Carolina's LP. It's beautiful program to begin with, but she skated with such joy and soul this time that made it so breathtaking to watch. Rochette's Olympic SP aside, I don't think a single ladies performance has moved me as much as this one did in the past decade. There was so much beauty, musicality and freedom in that performance. And on top of all that, her flow was just stunning. Everything just clicked. I'm sure I'll be watching this performance over and over and over in years to come.
We have similar tastes in skating artistry. Carolina, although not a favorite on this Board, is definitely worthy of one of the best lyrical skaters of today. That Debussy got me too.
 

hikki

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Country
Japan
First post.

Exactly, as a ballet teacher I'd have to say this is correct. Balletic has more to do with fluidity of movement and lines than being stereotypical long-limbed like say, Yuna or Caro. I must say however as someone who's followed (maybe not kept up as much as I'd like) skating since early 90s, I'd rate Mao just under Lucinda Ruh and the more recent Shizuka Arakawa (she seems to get better as pro), they're all balletic skaters with line, extension, turnout, and fluidity. Some people mistakenly think Sasha is balletic, but this is wrong IMHO. Sasha hits some extreme, rhythmic gymnast-like poses, but compare her style to Lucinda's and there we see the difference.

Thank you for your insight! :)
I'm no expert so your insight is very much appreciated, and will look forward to your future posts.

Of course figure skating is not ballet, and therefore I don't always agree with the kind of criticism that is along the line with "so and so skated to (insert a ballet piece) but that wasn't balletic at all." Well to a certain degree by skating to such music, especially a well-known piece, you're asking for it too but still. By the same token I feel a bit funny when people, especially commentators, make too easy a comparison between skating and ballet (Joesitz, this is not directed at you. I loved Carolina's Debussy as I said in the Highlights and Lowlights thread, and I think her 'awkwardness' has disappeared in my eyes e.g. telegraphing arm position). e.g. When Mao skated to Chopin Ballade #1 in a show where Tetsuya Kumakawa was a guest panelist, the TV host said "Don't you think she's so balletic? Wow!" and the former Royal Ballet Principal responded with a lot of praise without making any reference to ballet.
 

nikiya

Rinkside
Joined
May 3, 2011
Thanks for the welcome.

I like to watch different styles of skating, I can't help but sometimes preferring skaters with dancer's posture, position, and lines. Mainly I follow ladies and ice dance, most recently the men but I haven't been following pairs at all. I'm trying to finish watching all the WC videos just posted on YT. I'm still trying to digest my thoughts on I/ K's FD to Don Quixote, I can't criticize them for working hard and trying but, it's a bit of a miss for me.

Back to ladies, I think Caro has a lyrical style which is not to be confused with balletic style, personally I loved her LP. One of my favorite skaters Michelle Kwan, was not balletic at all but lyrical. Anyways, Mao's LP managed to be more balletic than Yuna's Giselle SP. This isn't meant to disparage Yuna though, just that I think her style is more in line with Carolina's than balletic sensibility. I don't think Yuna is particularly suited for ballet music, especially the gloomier portions of Giselle.

I think the argument can be made for Mao having more balletic style of all the ladies competing right now (and I'm not saying I'm her biggest fan or anything), solely based upon her unforced turnout and extension, upper body and back positions (very important in ballet). I think Mao's more natural turnout allows her to display her lower body lines to their utmost aesthetically speaking than skaters not gifted with turnout. Alissa is also capable of achieving this, from what I've seen. Sasha was very flexible like a gymnast when she was competing, but she tends to force her turnout, thus makiing her lines look slightly harsh and contorted but not balletic. She did hit some remarkable positions though, I gotta give her that.

Now I have to go back to watching ice dance videos again, my favorite discipline besides ladies.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
^ What do you think of Patrick Chan, from the point of view of posture, carriage, and fluidity of movement?
 

nikiya

Rinkside
Joined
May 3, 2011
^ What do you think of Patrick Chan, from the point of view of posture, carriage, and fluidity of movement?

I actually got to see his SP Take Five last year in person, I think he's one of the most fluid men's skaters I've seen. Very natural upper and lower body coordination, this is especially apparent during his footwork sequences, as his upper body is relaxed and isn't stiff like for example, Plushenko (from what I've seen on videos) when he does his footwork sequences. From a dancer's perspective, I can tell that Patrick has a strong yet flexible middle body (lower back, hips), which also allows for his flow and straight lower back position after jump landings. There are similarities between skating and ballet when it comes to male jumps positions in the air and landing postures. Because Patrick has a loose middle body, I feel like he can be pushed to do more choreographically like using more sweeping and expressive movements, as he already skates very naturally in multiple directions.

I think Patrick has wonderful upper body carriage, the only thing I've noticed is that he can still improve on arm movements and loosening up his neck/ shoulders more in order to appear less robotic or strained and more flowing and expressive. Perfect example is Lambiel in this area, Takahashi is good too.
 

Daniel5555

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
This season in ladies field there was no one in their top form, sadly. The earthquake in Japan and an additional month of the season didn't help to anyone, I believe.
Mao Asada was one who was affected the most, she even raised the question if it is correct at all to have World Championship this year, and I must say, I believe she had a point.

Obviously, what I wanted to see the most were Yuna's new programs. I'm not disappointed at all by them, but they could be performed much better. I hope we'll see them again eventually, because they really deserve to be captured in better performance.
I think, they were definitely the most interesting ones, especially "Homage to Korea"... Very unusual music cut and choreography with elements from traditional Korean dances.

As about the result of competition, I have no objections. Miki performed cleaner, so she deserved gold medal. When she talked to the public on the arena, she expressed the hope that her performance will help, if a tiny little bit, to those who suffer in Japan. I hope this victory can inspire Japanese people...
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
I actually got to see his SP Take Five last year in person, I think he's one of the most fluid men's skaters I've seen. Very natural upper and lower body coordination, this is especially apparent during his footwork sequences, as his upper body is relaxed and isn't stiff like for example, Plushenko (from what I've seen on videos) when he does his footwork sequences. From a dancer's perspective, I can tell that Patrick has a strong yet flexible middle body (lower back, hips), which also allows for his flow and straight lower back position after jump landings. There are similarities between skating and ballet when it comes to male jumps positions in the air and landing postures. Because Patrick has a loose middle body, I feel like he can be pushed to do more choreographically like using more sweeping and expressive movements, as he already skates very naturally in multiple directions.

I think Patrick has wonderful upper body carriage, the only thing I've noticed is that he can still improve on arm movements and loosening up his neck/ shoulders more in order to appear less robotic or strained and more flowing and expressive. Perfect example is Lambiel in this area, Takahashi is good too.

Lovely and detailed take, thanks for that. At the beginning of the season, I thought Patrick's slight robotic-ness took away a little away from his Take Five. It makes it hard for him to look natural moving to jazz. But he can't complain - nature certainly gifted him in other departments, as you pointed out with his strong/flexible torso.
 

shine

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
We have similar tastes in skating artistry. Carolina, although not a favorite on this Board, is definitely worthy of one of the best lyrical skaters of today. That Debussy got me too.
Yes, I've definitely noticed that we have shared quite a few favourites for the past several years. It's really great to see someone having similar tastes with me :)
 

colleen o'neill

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
Welcome nikiya !:)

Well put ! As a former dance teacher and fan of skating for over 30 yrs , I echo so much of what you've said.

I/K's DQ was pretty much a miss for me too . Come to the dance thread...we'll discuss. ;)
 

dwiggin3

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
While watching Kanako Murakami, whom I like - her freshness and speed is good, I noticed she does a lot of pumping - or better said, a lot of up and down movement with her body when skating. I found it distracting. If she could smooth it out, she could be a real contender!
 

npavel

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
I think mileage is also a factor in addition to age. Miki just seems to have been around longer than others.

Miki and Caro were at worlds junior on the podium in 2003 (2nd and 3rd) and then went on together at many competitions, all worlds and Olympics.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Patrick when he's on was an unbeatable competitor in 2011. His style can make me nervous because it is not a defined style and can change even in the same program. Lambiel had the great musical style and Jason Brown is the one who will be his successor.
 

ciocio

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
I actually got to see his SP Take Five last year in person, I think he's one of the most fluid men's skaters I've seen. Very natural upper and lower body coordination, this is especially apparent during his footwork sequences, as his upper body is relaxed and isn't stiff like for example, Plushenko (from what I've seen on videos) when he does his footwork sequences. From a dancer's perspective, I can tell that Patrick has a strong yet flexible middle body (lower back, hips), which also allows for his flow and straight lower back position after jump landings. There are similarities between skating and ballet when it comes to male jumps positions in the air and landing postures. Because Patrick has a loose middle body, I feel like he can be pushed to do more choreographically like using more sweeping and expressive movements, as he already skates very naturally in multiple directions.

I think Patrick has wonderful upper body carriage, the only thing I've noticed is that he can still improve on arm movements and loosening up his neck/ shoulders more in order to appear less robotic or strained and more flowing and expressive. Perfect example is Lambiel in this area, Takahashi is good too.

:confused::scratch: It´s strange, some friends of mine who are dancers, ballet dancers and choreographers have exactly the opposite opinion. They all said Patrick was stiff, had awkward arm movement, bad posture and coordination and his interpretation is very robotic and inexpressive. They laughed most of the time while watching Phantom of the Opera and I felt very embarrassed.:cry: :no:
 

let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
^ So did I- laughed all the time. That always-spread-all-five Phantom' both hands was just brrr..
 

ankka

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
I have always thought that when it comes to balletic skaters Mao (at the moment) is the best example.

As a dancer as well I'd say that Carolina to me is like a contemporary dancer with skates. I mean, there is a lot of ballet there but with more flow and freedom and even sometimes compromising some extentions for the flow. The way she used her hips when it comes to the step sequences allows her to create a lot of very difficult positions and maked her balance work where it would be impossible for most. The key (as I see it) is that her hips are very relaxed but still there is enough muscle tension to portray the middle body movements all the way from her fingers to toes. That is a very important element in contemporary dancing where the movents can be pretty strange but beautiful in a less obvious way.
 
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