Ladies - Long Program | Page 24 | Golden Skate

Ladies - Long Program

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Agree completely with your analysis. Ando has improved in expression, Kim was lackluster, Kostner was wonderful and Leonova attacked her program. Czisny was almost there. Flatt was disappointing - no fire - so slow. Poor Mao - I wish she would eat something.

In every sense of the word, Kim just didn't do well with mistakes in both her SP and LP. But beyond the obvious & visible mistakes, her performance showed a definite lack of refinement which are no less serious than the visible errors. The fact is, her PCS used to be head & shoulders above her competitors. Today, her PCS is barely higher than her competitors the point that even though she didn't get any negative GOE for doing a poor 3S+1T combo, her solo error on the Triple Flip was enough to erase her SP advantage over Ando and Ando's stepping out of her 2A combo. Ando had planned a 2A+3T combo, which was changed to a 2A+2T with stepping out, yet, she still beat Kim. That would not have happened last year or the year before.

Then again, if we were to believe some of the feverish Yu Na fans on internet, Yu Na doesn't mind her placement, she only skates for the enjoyment of her fans. Well, I am still trying to figure out what the tears were for then... But I am sure another very convenient excuse, uh...I mean "explanation" will again be furnished soon.

All of this is not unexpected. Many long time observers have cast doubts on Yu-Na's chances before the competition seeing how she practices. Official practices in a competition are meant to present your best skills and arsenals for the viewing of the people who will be judging you in the competition eventually. That is why for example, Joubert would only show off his jumps in those practices with no spins and no transitions. Why should he further show his weaker side to the judging panel who were watching closely even though it's not the actual competition? Yet, when it was pointed out that Yu-Na didn't do very well in those practices, many of the same Yu Na fans just went ballistic towards anyone who dare to say the Queen has regressed and that it's just a "practice". :sheesh:

Can't say this is an outcome that makes me sad however. You get what you deserve and you just can't expect to do no competition at all the whole season in Figure Skating and come to win the World Championship as though you are coming to pick up your Academy award.
 

TT_Fin

The second worst besserwisser in the world
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Country
Finland
Thank you. I wish I had found that written in the ISU rules. Can you give me the ISU publication number where that appears, please? I want to have accurate rules records filed, and clearly, I don't.

"Competitors who qualified for the Free Skating (Free Dance in Ice Dance), but were not placed higher than 16th place in the final result will be awarded 16 points (or the number of points equal to the number of Competitors if the number of Competitors entered is less than 16 in cases of withdrawals not
29
specified in the paragraph below);"

http://www5.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-202745-219968-166758-0-file,00.pdf Page 29, 2b. So no the top ten, but the rule about 16 points someone else wrote exists there.
 
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Marrymeyunakim

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 4, 2009
In every sense of the word, Kim just didn't do well with mistakes in both her SP and LP. But beyond the obvious & visible mistakes, her performance showed a definite lack of refinement which are no less serious than the visible errors. The fact is, her PCS used to be head & shoulders above her competitors. Today, her PCS is barely higher than her competitors the point that even though she didn't get any negative GOE for doing a poor 3S+1T combo, her solo error on the Triple Flip was enough to erase her SP advantage over Ando and Ando's stepping out of her 2A combo. Ando had planned a 2A+3T combo, which was changed to a 2A+2T with stepping out, yet, she still beat Kim. That would not have happened last year or the year before.

Then again, if we were to believe some of the feverish Yu Na fans on internet, Yu Na doesn't mind her placement, she only skates for the enjoyment of her fans. Well, I am still trying to figure out what the tears were for then... But I am sure another very convenient excuse, uh...I mean "explanation" will again be furnished soon.

All of this is not unexpected. Many long time observers have cast doubts on Yu-Na's chances before the competition seeing how she practices. Official practices in a competition are meant to present your best skills and arsenals for the viewing of the people who will be judging you in the competition eventually. That is why for example, Joubert would only show off his jumps in those practices with no spins and no transitions. Why should he further show his weaker side to the judging panel who were watching closely even though it's not the actual competition? Yet, when it was pointed out that Yu-Na didn't do very well in those practices, many of the same Yu Na fans just went ballistic towards anyone who dare to say the Queen has regressed and that it's just a "practice". :sheesh:

Can't say this is an outcome that makes me sad however. You get what you deserve and you just can't expect to do no competition at all the whole season in Figure Skating and come to win the World Championship as though you are coming to pick up your Academy award.

You're being unnecessarily mean, wallylutz. She came 2nd and she did the best she could with her programs.

I certainly expected her skating to lack some usual polish, and I did not think she could just come back into competition and earn an easy victory. And that she didn't. Still she earned the silver and that is a great achievement in itself.
 

YunaBliss

On the Ice
Joined
May 11, 2010
Well, she was AWFULLY close to just rolling in and "picking up her Academy award' no?

And I wonder how her GOEs in general would have been had she completed her 3S+2T and flip.

In any event, her LP to me was my favorite LP of all time.
 

lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
The Olympic year Yu na was just so far from the pack but the years before that she was in the mix with Miki, Mao, Carolina etc. which is one of the reasons Yu na has one world title.

Yu na did well. I'm not sure why people thought she would have some kind of melt down. I just couldn't imagine that. I do wonder how it would have been if she competed before now this season.
 
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aniela

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Nevermind Brit commentators, what did Irina say???
hehe.

Russian stream didn’t worked for me so I couldn’t hear what she said during the competition. But after medal ceremony there was an interview with Irina and she said that she was very proud of Alena and Ksenia. Expected them to be higher but still they’re very promising. She mentioned that if it were Euros comeptiton Russian girls would win two medals. She also said that she expected them to be very competitive next season. “As much I have a tons of respect to Carolina I hope she’ll be trounced by our girls soon.” She sounded very enthusiastic and euphoric.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
You're being unnecessarily mean, wallylutz. She came 2nd and she did the best she could with her programs.

I certainly expected her skating to lack some usual polish, and I did not think she could just come back into competition and earn an easy victory. And that she didn't. Still she earned the silver and that is a great achievement in itself.

The placement is frankly quite irrelevant. Someone could have won the Worlds with several errors if we had a general splashfest on any given day, e.g. the situation of the 2006 Olympics. She skated far below her potential and many aspects of her skating have actually regressed. As a skater or any athlete, everyone's goal is to strive to improve. In other words, a Silver medal here is in part due to meltdown of a close competitor (Asada) and some no shows (Rochette).
 

emma

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Just wanted to say congratulations to all the medalists! It was so sad for me to see Alissa fall, but she kept it together and I am so happy that she was able to skate well for the rest of that incredibly gorgeous LP. I never used to like when skaters reused their programs two years in a row - but then Shen/Zhao's Turandot sort of swayed me (so then I said, ok, in exceptional cases); now Chan has convinced me it can be a way to really learn and improve....so: I would love to see Alissa stay in the mix and reuse either her short or long as a vehicle to improve even more (and I really love the long...).

It will be interesting to see who stays in and who retires (or takes a break)...
 

jaylee

Medalist
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
All of this is not unexpected. Many long time observers have cast doubts on Yu-Na's chances before the competition seeing how she practices. Official practices in a competition are meant to present your best skills and arsenals for the viewing of the people who will be judging you in the competition eventually. That is why for example, Joubert would only show off his jumps in those practices with no spins and no transitions. Why should he further show his weaker side to the judging panel who were watching closely even though it's not the actual competition? Yet, when it was pointed out that Yu-Na didn't do very well in those practices, many of the same Yu Na fans just went ballistic towards anyone who dare to say the Queen has regressed and that it's just a "practice". :sheesh:

Can't say this is an outcome that makes me sad however. You get what you deserve and you just can't expect to do no competition at all the whole season in Figure Skating and come to win the World Championship as though you are coming to pick up your Academy award.

You will never admit when you are wrong, will you? You said many people believed that Yu-Na would bomb, a belief that you indicated you shared, and you were wrong. You were wrong that Brian Orser coached Min-Jung to any success last season (he didn't become her coach until after the olympics), you were wrong that Yu-Na has previously skated in Canadian shows and doesn't anymore in some kind of assumption that she's not grateful or embarrassed or whatever. Wrong, wrong, wrong. But you'll never admit it, you just twist your interpretation of the situation to cast the most negative light on her as possible in some sick vendetta on behalf of Brian Orser, which makes me resent him even more for the way he handled the split.

Yu-Na showed up with her 3Lz/3T, her 3F, all of her jumps and had terrific run-throughs and practices the morning of both the SP and LP. Wow, had she shown up without her 3Lz/3T, and merely a 3Lz/2t, you would've raked her over the coals! Even though there is no requirement for bringing a 3/3 to compete, which Miki Ando didn't do.

Find me a single quote where Yu-Na said something about winning. She never said that was her goal in coming back. If you want to paint this into a failure because she didn't win gold, I bet you would find a way to do it even if she had. You are painting this into something unnecessarily negative (shock and horror, Yu-Na's PCS advantage is no longer as high as it was before....hi, that happened during the 2009 GPF too, versus, hmm, Miki Ando!), but that says more about you than it does about Yu-Na.
 

Dodhiyel

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 13, 2003
"Competitors who qualified for the Free Skating (Free Dance in Ice Dance), but were not placed higher than 16th place in the final result will be awarded 16 points (or the number of points equal to the number of Competitors if the number of Competitors entered is less than 16 in cases of withdrawals not
29
specified in the paragraph below);"

http://www5.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-202745-219968-166758-0-file,00.pdf Page 29, 2b. So no the top ten, but the rule about 16 points someone else wrote exists there.

Thank you so much!!!:biggrin: When I was corrected before, I got a vague memory of having seen something somewhere a long time ago about that 16 points thing, but I was not sure where I had seen it. For convenience, I had saved the other part of the rules, separately, for quick reference, but obviously, I blew it lol.
 

jaylee

Medalist
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
The placement is frankly quite irrelevant. Someone could have won the Worlds with several errors if we had a general splashfest on any given day, e.g. the situation of the 2006 Olympics. She skated far below her potential and many aspects of her skating have actually regressed. As a skater or any athlete, everyone's goal is to strive to improve. In other words, a Silver medal here is in part due to meltdown of a close competitor (Asada) and some no shows (Rochette).

LOL, and how would've Rochette done had she been here? She was lackluster herself at 2009 Worlds (was 3rd in the LP in winning her silver), skipped 2010 Worlds...sorry, I like and respect Rochette, but you want to take credit away from Yu-Na coming back and winning silver and even partially credit it to Rochette, who is NOT HERE and did not compete and no one knows how she would've done. Where is the logic?
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Well, look, Alissa made one mistake - falling on her Triple Lutz. Miki also made one mistake that is just as costly: doubling and stepping out of a Triple jump. Alissa's program is much better than Miki's and her spins are much better (notice how Alissa only earned a couple tenths of a point more for her spins in comparison to Miki...awful judging).

I actually think Kostner was better than both of them in this segment of the competition and I would have had her 2nd in the LP, but her fall in the SP keeps her off the podium overall.

Yu-Na was clearly the best. Her 3Lutz+3Toe deserved a +3 GOE for its perfection and her second Lutz was brilliant too. Yeah, she popped the Flip and singled a 2Toe, but that's only a couple points more worth of mistakes in comparison to the mistakes Ando made. Yu-Na's overall skating and program is worth far more than a couple points over Ando.

Murakami deserved 6th because her Triple-Triple combinations were unfairly called as UR at this competition. Mao Asada's 3A and 3T in the LP also should have only been called as < rather than <<, but I'd still have her slightly behind Murakami because her performance lacked it's usual energy, she made a mistake on a spin, and she should have been behind in the SP to begin with.

Makarova in 8th because her program is a hodgepodge of bad music cuts, her jumping was the weakest out of all the top 8, and the fall out of her last spin.

Interesting points and you almost have me with the Yuna vs Miki argument. With Alissa, I love her skating more than Miki's but she doesn't get the points for her footwork and the quality of he jumps are not nearly as good as Miki's ... plus I wonder what would have happened if she had fallen on any other jump. Missing that first combo just leaves a lot of points on the table although thank goodness she hit her three jump combo. But the spins, yeah, she should be scored head and shoulders above everyone else.
 

YunaBliss

On the Ice
Joined
May 11, 2010
Can't say this is an outcome that makes me sad however. You get what you deserve and you just can't expect to do no competition at all the whole season in Figure Skating and come to win the World Championship as though you are coming to pick up your Academy award.

Why do I sense a lot of personal animosity here?

So you are saying that Yuna was not entitled to just come to the worlds, and she should have been obligated to compete the full season?

Setting aside your view on whether Yuna has regressed or not, as a figure skating sports fan, (if you ARE that), does it not benefit the sport that the reigning Olympic Champion, unlike many others before her, actually comes back to the Worlds Championship?

You make it sound like Yuna shouldn't even have competed in Moscow.
 
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