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Thread: Ladies - Long Program

  1. #511
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    Originally Posted by wallylutz
    I can see why you would think I had animosity towards Yu Na. So let me put my remark in context. I don't like it when skaters, which include the Men's, Dance and Pairs when they decide to skip the whole season just to do the WC/Olympics unless it's due to injury. Yu Na is certainly not the 1st person trying to do that, but those who do and are not injured, seem to demonstrate some kind of contempt for this sport - that they are too good for you.
    I mean she was probably a little tired. I think its 100% her choice.

  2. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by herios View Post
    The obsession of the US posters for that ephemeric 3 spots for the US ladies is getting ridiculous. You will get it when you have TWO solid skaters who can bring it simultaneously. until then, wishful thinking.

    Be happy that Czisny finished 5th, something last year looked an impossible task. And if you miss Mirai, tell her to be more focused when she needs to be and you'll see her a lot more on the big stage .
    I agree and it could be much worse for USA fans. We could be stuck with the Canadian Ladies

  3. #513
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    As in the SP, Yuna's LP worked the best for me. The music and choreography were very pleasing. However, I don't agree that she should have gotten +3 GOEs for her 3-3; in fact, I don't feel that any of her jumps should have received highly positive GOEs because they were far below her usual standard.

    Miki's LP was so underwhelming, but she put out her typically solid performance. The fact that Yuna could so easily have beaten her should make Miki reconsider playing it safe the next time. She seems to be forever executing all kinds of difficult combinations marvellously in practice only to go conservative in competition.

  4. #514
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwanford Wife View Post
    Do I look brand new to you? Just because in your mind someone is "massively" overscored doesn't make it fact, it makes it an opinion. There are several top dawg skaters I find overscored, but I can't pray for them to fail. Prayer doesn't work that way. You can only hope your favorite does better. Further, You know how judging works - you can't "wuz robbed" because you didn't get your way. Be the awesome Blades we know you are, not a spoiled baby - there are enough of those on the boards these days... But I still love you...
    I know what you're saying but I believe that, factually, Miki Ando is constantly overscord if you compare the scores she received on her spins to the scores other competitors received and the PCS she received with the program she skated. It's not my opinion but rather a facual analysis of the difficulty and quality of what she executed, just as it is not an opinion that a Triple Axel is factually the hardest Triple a person can execute. Jumps have set base values that differentiate them and thus judges are at least partially objective with regards to their scoring because they are forced to be. Spins, however, have the exact same base value. Every Level 4 spin is the same, according to the rules, even though a certain Level 4 spin might actually be 10x harder than another Level 4 spin (that's where GOE is supposed to come in to differentiate them).

    Similarly, it is a fact that Miki Ando's program has a 40 second rest section where she doesn't do anything aside from completely basic movements. CoP is supposed to give the programs credit and evaluate both their choreographic difficulty and effectiveness (that second part is subjective, the first part is relatively not); Miki Ando's program hardly deserves the scores it receives.

  5. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    I understand now. I can see why you would think I had animosity towards Yu Na. So let me put my remark in context. I don't like it when skaters, which include the Men's, Dance and Pairs when they decide to skip the whole season just to do the WC/Olympics unless it's due to injury. Yu Na is certainly not the 1st person trying to do that, but those who do and are not injured, seem to demonstrate some kind of contempt for this sport - that they are too good for you.
    Wow. I don't know what to say, other than to second what BoP said.

    I am so glad that you were not a judge at this year's worlds. You would have given Yuna -3 GOEs across the board just to make sure that Yuna doesn't get a medal.

    After reading this, I really hope Yuna retires for good. I really do.

  6. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by treeloving View Post
    I wonder how Irina gave comment about Miki?
    She was happy for Miki, said that the 1st place is well deserved and agreed with judges when she saw Yuna scores. She gave Miki a lot of compliments.

    Czisny deserved 4th place or even a medal, huh? Come on, she was already lucky to get full credit for her second 3Lz. With that jump technique there's no way she can get good GOEs for jumps. Alena is a much better jumper and is one of the very few ladies who showed full set of triples, including 3-3, not to mention she was on today and skated with joy
    Last edited by Lucky Star; 04-30-2011 at 10:49 AM.

  7. #517
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    Man, what a major disappointment this competition was for me.

    First, give credit where it's due and congrats to Ando for her 2nd world championship. Great thing for Japan especially given what happened.

    Now...I don't know what happened to Flatt. Apparently she was injured or something...what a mess. Not quite as bad as the GPF, but somewhat of an embarrassment. After thinking about it, she probably should have withdrawn- unless it was something that JUST happened in the last couple of days. But I'm hearing that's not the case, and she was having trouble as early as last week. Ugh...so tough to watch.

    At least Czisny saved herself from similar disaster by pulling herself together after the initial fall. Actually, I was somewhat impressed by her resilience, given that in the past, starting out with a mistake would have doomed her for sure. Still though, that fall ended up costing her a medal. Considering her history, she did pretty well. But the woulda-shoulda-coulda part of me keeps thinking what if- she was so close to that bronze...still disappointed.

    And Kostner did NOT deserve that bronze by a long shot. It should have gone to Leonova, who was head-and-shoulders above Kostner today. Kim was somewhat overscored, again- although 2nd place was probably about right in this case.

    Too bad about Asada- I really thought she would fight back, but looks like the extended season took quite a toll on her.

    That's all I have to say. Probably need to cool off a bit now

  8. #518
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    I just woke up. Congrats to Miki!! I have only watched Yuna's LP so far and love the korean music. Very beautiful. I think her LP could have been much much better had she skated a few more times in competitions but I feel it wasn't choreographed as well as her past programs. I really would love to see what Lori Nichols can do with Yuna for a change.
    Please, no. Sorry, but I think David Wilson is brilliant with Yuna. Lori's programs these days feel musty to me. Always with the warhorses, always with the literal themes and characters. OTH, I'd love to see what David Wilson could do for Mirai but I suppose Frank Caroll will never leave Lori as a choreographer.

    Lori did give Rachael her best SP in a long time, though _ the second time around, though. The first was a total miss and the LP continued to be horible.

    I thought Airang did bring out something new in Yuna, actually. Her wonderfully artistry in the past has been based on her meticulous musicality and precision skating and her speed. But this time I thought she was more emotional and conected to the audience more than usual. I loved it. Even if she doesn't keep competing maybe she'll do a version of this program for shows.

  9. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky Star View Post
    She was happy for Miki, said that the 1st place is well deserved and agreed with judges when she saw Yuna scores. She gave Miki a lot of compliments.

    Czisny deserved 4th place or even a medal, huh? Come on, she was already lucky to get full credit for her second 3Lz. With that jump technique there's no way she can get good GOEs for jumps. Alena is a much better jumper and is one of the very few ladies who showed full set of triples, including 3-3, not to mention she was on today and skated with joy
    Irina is so lovely, so sweet toward Miki!

  10. #520
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    Man, what a major disappointment this competition was for me.

    First, give credit where it's due and congrats to Ando for her 2nd world championship. Great thing for Japan especially given what happened.

    Now...I don't know what happened to Flatt. Apparently she was injured or something...what a mess. Not quite as bad as the GPF, but somewhat of an embarrassment. After thinking about it, she probably should have withdrawn- unless it was something that JUST happened in the last couple of days. But I'm hearing that's not the case, and she was having trouble as early as last week. Ugh...so tough to watch.

    At least Czisny saved herself from similar disaster by pulling herself together after the initial fall. Actually, I was somewhat impressed by her resilience, given that in the past, starting out with a mistake would have doomed her for sure. Still though, that fall ended up costing her a medal. Considering her history, she did pretty well. But the woulda-shoulda-coulda part of me keeps thinking what if- she was so close to that bronze...still disappointed.

    And Kostner did NOT deserve that bronze by a long shot. It should have gone to Leonova, who was head-and-shoulders above Kostner today. Kim was somewhat overscored, again- although 2nd place was probably about right in this case.

    Too bad about Asada- I really thought she would fight back, but looks like the extended season took quite a toll on her.

    That's all I have to say. Probably need to cool off a bit now
    I was wondering where you were!!! Yeah, I have the same mixed feelings about Alissa, it can't be helped. Sure she is feeling much the same way. I can't believe Rachael was 14th!!!! How crushing for her... what is there to say. I really can't see her resurecting her career. But what do I know... and Alissa did, so...

    Mike's gold really is great for Japan.

  11. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    I understand now. I can see why you would think I had animosity towards Yu Na. So let me put my remark in context. I don't like it when skaters, which include the Men's, Dance and Pairs when they decide to skip the whole season just to do the WC/Olympics unless it's due to injury. Yu Na is certainly not the 1st person trying to do that, but those who do and are not injured, seem to demonstrate some kind of contempt for this sport - that they are too good for you. Well, you can't possibly be too good in this sport, it's a dynamic environment. If Patrick Chan does that next season, I'll just say the same thing as well and expect him to do poorly at WC. The reality is virtually anyone who tried to pull this off since the modern era of skating, they all did poorly in the WC/Olympics. Hence, the smart ones, usually old veterans doing a comeback, e.g. Plushenko & Shen/Zhao last year, they all put themselves through the fires of competitions before the actual big event. By doing so, they are also signaling a respect for their competitors, which to me is important in this sport because we are not hockey or soccer, in this sport, we need to treat each other with respect and that includes competing.
    Good save Wally and on one hand I totally agree about the need to compete the whole season unless due to an injury. However, I don't blame the skaters or think they're being disrespectful. I blame the system.

    The ISU and the federations allow skaters to skip seasons and appear at big events to ensure ticket sales & drama with little to no regard to the individual skaters. Yuna simply took advantage of this loop-hole. And let's keep it real - a silver with a few points to spare after a long break from competition ice speaks volumns about the talent level that Yuna brings to the table.

    Now what I thoroughly disagree with is the comparison to soccer and hockey... These sports DO NOT allow teams to simply show up for championships and to imply differently is kinda dumb. Last time I checked, the Detroit Red Wings and Barcelona need to play week in & week out to earn their berths while competiting with passion, integrity and respect. If we want figure skating to be taken seriously as a sport populated with strong atheletes, we as fans need to start treating it as such and leave the lord of the manor attitudes at home.
    Last edited by Kwanford Wife; 04-30-2011 at 10:55 AM.

  12. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andalusia View Post
    As in the SP, Yuna's LP worked the best for me. The music and choreography were very pleasing. However, I don't agree that she should have gotten +3 GOEs for her 3-3; in fact, I don't feel that any of her jumps should have received highly positive GOEs because they were far below her usual standard.
    I guess people see different things! Aside from the mistakes...
    I couldn't tell from the stream, but looking at more high quality version of her program, I thought her 3-3 was one of the best 3-3s she's ever done and her solo 3Lz was just as massive as well. Her delayed 3Lz in 3-3 combination was simply marvelous.

    I see that there's already a YT video of her 3-3 combos including this WC one.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHNrb...tailpage#t=83s

    OTOH while I didn't feel much for her SP I agree that her LP was great. Music, her connectivity to music, and definitely her costume...

  13. #523
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    I'm disappointed by this Worlds for the ladies. Nearly everyone skated well below their potential and just lacked energy. Perhaps the season lasted too long. Everyone peaked for March and it was just a struggle to regroup.

    Mao just looked like she had no strength in her body left. She looked so thin and fragile. It must have been so tough for her.

    As for Yuna, not her best nor her worst Worlds performance. It's silver for her but disappointing considering her true potential and that she lost to Miki (still can't quite get over the fact that she's now two time world champ). Still, I guess I'm OK with the scores in that the judges pretty much put Yuna's crappy SP and OK LP (by Yuna's standard) as just about on par with the best from Miki Ando. Heh.

    I do wonder which of our dominant trio (Miki, Mao and Yuna) will retire first and who will continue on to Soichi. I think Mao has the strongest motivation of the three, and Miki the least now that she's won two world titles and will be too old for Soichi. As for for Yuna, it's amazing she's still competing after her Olympic victory. There must be something in her motivating this and it could just push her to continue, possibly even up to Soichi 2014.

    Oh, and as the skate gods would have it Yuna continues her streak of never finishing off the podium. Some people (e.g., wallylutz) will say she was lucky this time, considering the poor performance or absence of others, but competition is not about what ifs, but what is.

  14. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    Man, what a major disappointment this competition was for me.

    First, give credit where it's due and congrats to Ando for her 2nd world championship. Great thing for Japan especially given what happened.

    Now...I don't know what happened to Flatt. Apparently she was injured or something...what a mess. Not quite as bad as the GPF, but somewhat of an embarrassment. After thinking about it, she probably should have withdrawn- unless it was something that JUST happened in the last couple of days. But I'm hearing that's not the case, and she was having trouble as early as last week. Ugh...so tough to watch.

    At least Czisny saved herself from similar disaster by pulling herself together after the initial fall. Actually, I was somewhat impressed by her resilience, given that in the past, starting out with a mistake would have doomed her for sure. Still though, that fall ended up costing her a medal. Considering her history, she did pretty well. But the woulda-shoulda-coulda part of me keeps thinking what if- she was so close to that bronze...still disappointed.

    And Kostner did NOT deserve that bronze by a long shot. It should have gone to Leonova, who was head-and-shoulders above Kostner today. Kim was somewhat overscored, again- although 2nd place was probably about right in this case.

    Too bad about Asada- I really thought she would fight back, but looks like the extended season took quite a toll on her.

    That's all I have to say. Probably need to cool off a bit now
    I'm with you RD... Nothing worse than a big ol' splatfest at Worlds to close out the season...sigh... But between the delays, venue changes, and whatnot are you really surprised?

    Poor Flatt... its almost lucky that this Worlds will not have long term impact because it was mostly ignored between Japan and the Royal Wedding. Maybe, if she's lucky, she will be forgiven by the crazies quickly and not subjected to an entire summer of "ITS ALL HER FAULT!" threads that Alissa was subjected to when she had a less than stellar Worlds... And maybe this will provide MiRai with a wakeup call as she prepares for next year - sometimes a dose of "I coulda shoulda woulda done better" is just what a person's psyche needs in this world where we try to pretend that regrets have no value.

  15. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    I was wondering where you were!!! Yeah, I have the same mixed feelings about Alissa, it can't be helped. Sure she is feeling much the same way. I can't believe Rachael was 14th!!!! How crushing for her... what is there to say. I really can't see her resurecting her career. But what do I know... and Alissa did, so...

    Mike's gold really is great for Japan.
    I decided to stick to Twitter for the live coverage. Was live-tweeting the event so that's where I was. I'd figure I'd come to GS only to post more detailed thoughts.

    Flatt was 14th in the free skate, but 12th overall. Still, imagine that Flatt & Czisny virtually switched positions from 2009 to 2011- crazy talk. I just don't know why Flatt competed...oh well, but that's for another thread...if someone else doesn't start it, maybe I will.

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