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Thread: Ladies - Long Program

  1. #586
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    Congratulations to Miki. A lot of times, we want the flashy person aka Queen Yuna to win, but the battle hardened drill sergeant should win despite the duller program if said flashy person makes such large mistakes. Yuna didn't perform this season and it showed, including the pressure, as she apparently did fine in practice. Her botched 3/3 in the short will haunt her, as well as the flip in the long and the point differential was agonizingly close. However, says a lot about her talent versus the rest of the field if she still comes in Silver. Miki's been competing all season and winning so it was natural for her to pull this one in as well.

    Besides the botched jump, I felt Yuna's LP was fairly good. The step sequence seems to be getting mixed reviews, but I felt it added to the program the kind of artistic mood that seems to be lacking in some programs. The music was okay but I really wish David Wilson had added more of the Arirang theme. Seems the beginning half of the theme was included simply so it is recognizable, the other half omitted in exchange for the wailing woman's voice, etc.

    Mao... :(

    Oh, I was hoping Alissa would take bronze. Sorry Flatt fans, I think she's a fantastic skater, but she comes across as a happy skater enjoying life (which is wonderful) rather than the eagle eyed warrior skater that lands on podiums.

    I really wish some powerhouse American ladies would present themselves but it just seems that while the innate talent is there, the competitive spirit is a bit lacking. I know, who am I to judge, just my opinion.

    In other words, our American ladies are soft. They're too sensitive. We need some anvils that can take the pressure. Bludgeon the competition into the ground kind of mentality but it just isn't there. Not with Rachael, not with Mirai, not with Alissa. I don't know if they really believe they can win. If they believe they are winners and take home the gold mentality. Mirai is sweet but she's a softie and we all know it. Wouldn't survive in a boot camp until she's matured a bit. Can happen but it isn't right now. Not Alissa either. Yuna and Miki and Joannie would. We know Yuna's struggle trying to skate in a country without a dedicated ice rink. She battled her way here so she's a fighter. Fierce. Miki is older. Like 24 or so now? She's been through major ups and downs, and she definitely had the ability, having landed a quad in competition. Injuries galore. Joannie Rochet is fierce. Comes out and not just performs well to her own ability but hammers the competition. Focusing on yourself, while it tends to reduce stress, sometimes reflects lesser aggression and lost confidence. And its visible. The other foreign ladies are more aggressive.

    I know this upsets some people but I feel they're just less tempered. That needs to be examined in American figure skating. Too gentle. Too nice. Too pretty. Less grit and grind. Figure skating isn't just about pretty dresses and pretty moves. Its a sport. Become Xena on the ice. And when the pressure hits the sword, you either shatter or you hold. Its what they say about life. Too sheltered. (THEN AGAIN, CHAN won the Men's so I take it all back.)

  2. #587
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    Let's face it this era of US ladies has been disappointing to say the least. Zhang is pretty much an afterthought Wagner can't get it together and Flatt has gone about as far as she will ever go. Only Mirai still has the potential to make it big but she's a headcase and has no confidence. Mirai needs to come out like gangbusters next year and show show she wants to be a champion and stop playing around. It's a crime lesser skaters like Leonova are at Worlds while Mirai sits at home.

  3. #588
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBerkeley View Post
    Congratulations to Miki. A lot of times, we want the flashy person aka Queen Yuna to win, but the battle hardened drill sergeant should win despite the duller program if said flashy person makes such large mistakes. Yuna didn't perform this season and it showed, including the pressure, as she apparently did fine in practice. Her botched 3/3 in the short will haunt her, as well as the flip in the long and the point differential was agonizingly close. However, says a lot about her talent versus the rest of the field if she still comes in Silver. Miki's been competing all season and winning so it was natural for her to pull this one in as well.

    Besides the botched jump, I felt Yuna's LP was fairly good. The step sequence seems to be getting mixed reviews, but I felt it added to the program the kind of artistic mood that seems to be lacking in some programs. The music was okay but I really wish David Wilson had added more of the Arirang theme. Seems the beginning half of the theme was included simply so it is recognizable, the other half omitted in exchange for the wailing woman's voice, etc.

    Mao... :(

    Oh, I was hoping Alissa would take bronze. Sorry Flatt fans, I think she's a fantastic skater, but she comes across as a happy skater enjoying life (which is wonderful) rather than the eagle eyed warrior skater that lands on podiums.

    I really wish some powerhouse American ladies would present themselves but it just seems that while the innate talent is there, the competitive spirit is a bit lacking. I know, who am I to judge, just my opinion.

    In other words, our American ladies are soft. They're too sensitive. We need some anvils that can take the pressure. Bludgeon the competition into the ground kind of mentality but it just isn't there. Not with Rachael, not with Mirai, not with Alissa. I don't know if they really believe they can win. If they believe they are winners and take home the gold mentality. Mirai is sweet but she's a softie and we all know it. Wouldn't survive in a boot camp until she's matured a bit. Can happen but it isn't right now. Not Alissa either. Yuna and Miki and Joannie would. We know Yuna's struggle trying to skate in a country without a dedicated ice rink. She battled her way here so she's a fighter. Fierce. Miki is older. Like 24 or so now? She's been through major ups and downs, and she definitely had the ability, having landed a quad in competition. Injuries galore. Joannie Rochet is fierce. Comes out and not just performs well to her own ability but hammers the competition. Focusing on yourself, while it tends to reduce stress, sometimes reflects lesser aggression and lost confidence. And its visible. The other foreign ladies are more aggressive.

    I know this upsets some people but I feel they're just less tempered. That needs to be examined in American figure skating. Too gentle. Too nice. Too pretty. Less grit and grind. Figure skating isn't just about pretty dresses and pretty moves. Its a sport. Become Xena on the ice. And when the pressure hits the sword, you either shatter or you hold. Its what they say about life. Too sheltered. (THEN AGAIN, CHAN won the Men's so I take it all back.)
    ^ Perhaps but Alissa's gentle nature comes across in her skating and I personally love it. I know others don't but that's fine. I'll take her lovely style of skating in exchange for medals. Besides, she did win the grand prix, so there. Also, at worlds she made fewer mistakes really than Kim or Ando. It's just she needs to be perfect to medal because she's not the best jumper. But she certainly showed fighting-I'm-here-to-medal spirit in my book. It hasn't always been the case for her but this year it has been.

  4. #589
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBerkeley View Post
    *whole post, especially the last sentence


    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan
    Besides, (Alissa) did win the grand prix, so there!
    That's the spirit! "Shatter or hold!"

  5. #590
    lowtherlore
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    Congrats to Miki, she deserved the win after her consistency throughout the long hard season.

    Too bad Alissa missed the podium so closely, but congrats on her stellar season. Can't wait to see her next weekend in Yuna's shows.

    Congrats to Yuna on her successful comeback. I felt both her programs were exquisite and her skating has matured even more. When asked why she shed tears during the medal ceremony, she said it was a mixture of feelings and that standing on the podium itself made her emotional. As Layfan said she doesn't owe anybody anything. She already has done a lot for her fans, her federation and for Korean figure skating, and I hope she skates for herself as David Wilson said.
    Last edited by lowtherlore; 04-30-2011 at 07:23 PM.

  6. #591
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikiAndoFan#1 View Post
    When do you not think Miki shouldn't have been on the podium?
    2007 Worlds?

    Look, I like Miki a lot as a person, and I think she is very, very talented. I don't believe that talent is being put to proper use, though. Her choreography the past several years has been really bad and her biggest asset, jumping, has being very squandered. In 2009 and 2010 Miki was NOT given the credit she deserved for her jumping. The old rules destroyed her with downgrades and that was sad to see. But the rules changed this season. She should have pulled out the Quad and brought the Triple-Triple back. Granted she tried do the 3-3 in the SP at the start of the season and I blame the tech caller at the GPF for giving her 3Lutz-3Loop a <<, because it didn't deserve it. Her Flip being downgraded a couple times also pretty much forced her to switch to just a 3Lutz-2Loop and then 3Loop as the solo jump.

    But she could have tried 3Sal-3Loop and 3Lutz. And what about her Long Program? Why not try the Quad at least once? An underrotated attempt is worth 7.5 points, which is way more than a Double Axel. Even if she fell on an underrotated attempt it's worth 3.5 points, which is only slightly less points than a well executed Double Axel.

    Instead, she went with an easy layout. Her program was completely built around the jumps and had little concern for actual choreography. If you're going to do that then you need to actually have a very difficult jump layout. I'm flabbergasted by the scores she has received all season for such an empty program.

    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    If your intention is to be next Donald Trump or Johnny Weir, you are doing a fine job in getting attention for now. Just remember, this won't last very long. We all know when Pasha Grishuck called Oksana Baiul a criminal hoping to land herself in the Hollywood in the process, she ended up somewhere but it ain't Hollywood.
    Luckily I already live in Hollywood and have an additional career outside of skating. Yay!

    But I'm not trying to be outlandish for the sake of it (please never again compare me to the disgusting Donald Trump). Miki Ando did a 5-Triple program with unremarkable spins, average footwork, and very little choreography or care for the music. Why on Earth should I feel that such a program deserves to be placed higher than the 5-Triple programs of Carolina Kostner, Alissa Czisny, or Yu-Na Kim when they all had actual CHOREOGRAPHY and were superior in other areas to boot (Kostner on her footwork and spiral, Czisny on her spins, and Yu-Na on the spiral, footwork, and quality of the Lutzes). Granted, in the case of Czisny, Ando had an extra Double Axel and better jump quality than her...but Czisny's spins nearly cover that entire deficit (if judged properly, which they weren't) and her PCS should have been higher.
    Last edited by Blades of Passion; 04-30-2011 at 08:12 PM.

  7. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtherlore View Post
    Congrats to Yuna on her successful comeback. I felt both her programs were exquisite and her skating has matured even more. When asked why she shed tears during the medal ceremony, she said it was a mixture of feelings and that standing on the podium itself made emotional. As Layfan said she doesn't owe anybody anything. She already has done a lot for her fans, her federation and for Korean figure skating, and I hope she skates for herself as David Wilson said.nc
    What do you mean by skate for herself? I find this concept interesting because although Korea loves her, at the end of the day, the glory and the agony are ultimately hers, no?

  8. #593
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    Not sure why everyone feels so sorry for Flatt. People were merciless on Czisny in 2009, but all of a sudden Flatt gets a pass?? Come on. I have a funny feeling she knew she was barely hanging on.
    I don't understand your logic. So, because people were merciless on Czisny before, Flatt should face the same attitude now?

  9. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    Well, they could have easily placed Leonova high enough to get bronze, and I don't think there would have been outcry- but they didn't.
    Well, they did place Leonova high enough to potentially get the bronze. It was quite a miracle that the inconsistent Carolina came out as a dark horse and took away the medal. Can you please explain why Leonova deserves high scores on her SS and TR with that empty program which P.J. Kwong described as "a laundry list of jumps" and nothing in between? How can someone have a high TR score when there is a shortage of TR in the program? Please feel free to enlighten me. I don't skate after all.
    Last edited by skatinginbc; 04-30-2011 at 08:06 PM.

  10. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Let's face it this era of US ladies has been disappointing to say the least. Zhang is pretty much an afterthought Wagner can't get it together and Flatt has gone about as far as she will ever go. Only Mirai still has the potential to make it big but she's a headcase and has no confidence. Mirai needs to come out like gangbusters next year and show show she wants to be a champion and stop playing around. It's a crime lesser skaters like Leonova are at Worlds while Mirai sits at home.
    Of all the posts on this page this one nails it.

  11. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by fscric View Post
    I don't understand your logic. So, because people were merciless on Czisny before, Flatt should face the same attitude now?
    I just find the inconsistency curious, that's all.

  12. #597
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Business View Post
    Whoa! Both Mao's 3axel and the 3t after her 2a got <<, as in an actual downgrade to doubles. That is only supposed to happen if the jump is landed more than 180 degrees short of rotation, i.e. landed forward? I'd have to see the slo-mo, but it didn't look like that happened here?
    The judges really are hating on Mao lately, espcially at this event. She is never given the benifit of the doubt and her PCS are shameful. I feel so sorry for her because it seems like once the judges choose favorites, there is really nothing that can be done. She should not have been on the podium here, but <<??? really? and why low PCS? her fresskate in particular is a beautiful program.


    on another note, it's interesting that Miki won last time Worlds were in Tokyo in 2007. Maybe she has to be inspired by her country to win?

  13. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinymavy15 View Post
    The judges really are hating on Mao lately, espcially at this event. She is never given the benifit of the doubt and her PCS are shameful. I feel so sorry for her because it seems like once the judges choose favorites, there is really nothing that can be done. She should not have been on the podium here, but <<??? really? and why low PCS? her fresskate in particular is a beautiful program.
    ITA. Ugh, the PCS for the Russian skaters at this event was a bit much to say the least.

  14. #599
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    Recent Hersh article says that Czisny will be sticking around for at least one more season.

  15. #600
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Oh, this looks like a perfect time to address something I forgot about:

    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    On Alena Leonova

    She is a remarkable "character" skater - not the ballerina-type. She is refreshing because so many ladies all pretend to be ballerinas.

    At Worlds, she danced through the many rhythms of her music and showed an excellent flair for the Tech. Had I been a 6.0 judge I would have given her 1st place.
    I agree that Leonova is a refreshing skater at times. She adds character to her music. However, she was behind the music this entire performance and that detracts from the character significantly. Look at her performance of the program at Russian Nationals and you can see how much less effective this one was. Given how she was behind her music at Worlds, the highlight of the first part of the program - the devilishly playful cackle that she acts out with the music - became shortened and mistimed. She continued to be behind the music for the rest of the program and she was still skating when the music ended.

    Her program was already not good in terms of Skating Skills/Transitions. When the strength of the program (outside of the jumps) then falters, there isn't much left. If she gave her Russian Nationals performance (which was also stronger technically) at Worlds then I would have put her 1st in the LP as well, but she didn't.

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