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Thread: Ladies - Long Program

  1. #616
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    And Carolina podiums every three years (2005, 2008, 2011).

  2. #617
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    So happy for Miki as well! It's so nice to see her hard work pay off. She's SO fast and strong.

    Yuna: Meh artistry, but generally good technical.
    Carolina: Love her costume, the music. It's good to see her on the podium again.
    Alena: Love, love, love this girl.
    Kanako: oh well, better luck next time! She's very good.
    Mao:
    Alissa: Surprised she didn't fall on everything, just one jump.
    Flatt: so embarrassing. Why did she even show up?

  3. #618
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    And Miki wins the post-Olympic Worlds (although she's OTP at the big event)

  4. #619
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Yes, clearly, but it was the easiest way to represent what I was talking about without listing an entire protocol breakdown and I specifically mentioned Miki's extra 2Axel over Czisny. Do not even attempt to school me in CoP because you will lose. *Puts on a MERYL STREEP in Doubt face*

    [snipe]

    You failed.
    Amazing...ok, to make this really, really short, I am going to just quote a short paragraph from you, again cut through the BS and do a super short comparison on a few lines and call it a day because this clearly isn't worth my time:

    Quote Originally Posted by BoP
    #1) You definitely are less experienced than you'd like to think because Ando did not "upgrade" her flying spin. A spin in one position is REQUIRED and it usually manifests itself in the form of a Flying Spin, Change-of-Foot spin, or Flying Change-of-Foot spin (each type has the same base value). Notice how Ando in fact performed a Flying Sit Spin.
    Here is the an excerpt from the ISU protocol:

    Ando's spins: FSSp4 = 3.0 ; CCoSp4 = 3.5 ; FCCoSp4 = 3.5
    Kim's spins: FSSp4 = 3.0 ; CCoSp4 = 3.5 ; LSSp4 = 2.7

    Notice the bold part in red, which indicated the only different spin type between the two skaters given that the other two cancel each other out and are indicated in green to make obvious. If you really want to do a good job at BS through a lot of words, at least get your facts right.
    Quote Originally Posted by BoP
    "Notice how Ando in fact performed a Flying Sit Spin"
    yeah, she did, so did Kim. :sheesh: Except Ando also took advantage of the rules which allowed an additional CCoSp if it's preceded by a flying entry, hence opened up an advantage of 0.7 in BV (I made an error by stating it to be 0.5 when it really should be 0.7 earlier). Do you understand what FCCoSp means? It's a type of Flying Spin. It's an upgrade because normally a Level 4 Flying Spin worth only 3.0 or 3.2 if it's a FCSp4 but in this case, she received 3.5 in lieu of 3.0. I am convinced you didn't even bother check your facts before writing all these BS by drowning readers with your sea of words otherwise if you had just opened the protocol, it's written right there on Page #1, there is not even the need to scroll down.

    I am not even going to bother with the rest. It's amusing how you have two standards for applying penalty on errors where Chan can receive double of the deduction for a lesser error while Czisny's error, a fall, only should be deducted based on the existing rule and how suddenly, you claim "How I want CoP to be graded on the tech mark is not the system that was in place here". That certainly wasn't the tune you were singing in the Men's LP thread and how you justified placing Chan behind Kozuka even though I have not heard from another human being whether here or elsewhere, including well known Chan haters on GS that actually agreed with you. There is no intellectual consistency in your statements. This is a waste of time. You got skin thicker than an elephant, maybe this is what it takes to live in Hollywood, if so thanks but no thanks. You won, Mr. Trump, I am fired.

  5. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorcerer View Post
    Miki won't retire and will take in all the criticism and improve herself.

    Anyway, as a big Miki fan I am wrinting here my BIG CONGRATULATIONS hor her !
    That's good to hear. I am glad Miki brought some well deserved cheering to those back home in Japan.

  6. #621
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlgpffps View Post
    Oh and I hope Yu-na's not too upset with her performances. They were disappointing, yes, but fine given her total lack of competitive experience this season. Nothing to beat oneself down for. On a more positive note, she's won her fifth consecutive Worlds medal, which is second only to Michelle's nine, and she's been able to maintain her podium record, which is unprecedented. Also, no matter what, she's still an Olympic and one-time Worlds champion.

    It's rather surprising that she's only a one-time WC given her consistency and caliber.
    What consistency???? I would agree Yuna is a one of a kind caliber compare to other skaters, but i wouldn't call her consistent. Of all her 5 WC, she didn't skate a single WC with clean Sp+LP. Let see:

    2007: 2 falls on LP
    2008: 1 fall in SP, 1 pop jump in LP
    2009: 1 badly underroatated 2S in Lp
    2010: 1 < jump, + missed spins and spiral, 1 fall and 1 poped jumps (prob her worst competition)
    2011: 1 set out in SP, one poped jumps and 1 minor mistake on singling a jump.....

    I would hardly call that consistent!! To be hornest her olympics performance was the most dynamic and cleanest of her career!! Don't get me wrong, Yuna did have the potential to match Michelle a complishment, but what stopping her from winning multiple WC title is herself...

  7. #622
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Here is the an excerpt from the ISU protocol:

    Ando's spins: FSSp4 = 3.0 ; CCoSp4 = 3.5 ; FCCoSp4 = 3.5
    Kim's spins: FSSp4 = 3.0 ; CCoSp4 = 3.5 ; LSSp4 = 2.7

    Notice the bold part in red, which indicated the only different spin type between the two skaters given that the other two cancel each other out and are indicated in green to make obvious. If you really want to do a good job at BS through a lot of words, at least get your facts right.
    Your specific words were "Miki Ando upgraded her Flying Spin to a Change-of-Foot Combination Spin and Yu-Na did not." This is factually wrong. Miki did not upgrade her Flying Spin. And the breakdown you just pointed out is exactly what I just said...Yu-Na lost .8 points in base value by doing a Layback spin instead of another Change-of-Foot Combination spin (with flying entrance of course). You have no point. I know exactly what I am talking about and you either can not understand me or you are so distraught about how wrong you are that you have nothing else to talk about and are determined to twist my words around to make yourself look better.

    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    I am not even going to bother with the rest. It's amusing how you have two standards for applying penalty on errors where Chan can receive double of the deduction for a lesser error while Czisny's error, a fall, only should be deducted based on the existing rule and how suddenly, you claim "How I want CoP to be graded on the tech mark is not the system that was in place here". That certainly wasn't the tune you were singing in the Men's LP thread and how you justified placing Chan behind Kozuka.
    Again, you have completely misunderstood what I've said. I feel that deductions for mistakes need to be increased, yes. I never said Chan deserved to be scored on that separate criteria, though. What I DID say is that Chan clearly deserved -2 GOE for his Triple Axel and IF a more accurate system for mistakes was in place, he should have lost twice the amount of points that he actually did with the scores the judges him (that were incorrect, as they were not all -2's as they should have been) and the current scoring system.

    I think Kozuka deserved to place ahead of Chan in the Long Program under the CURRENT scoring system. He factually received a higher technical score than Chan did from the judges/scoring system at the event and it was Chan's PCS that won him the LP. I believe Chan deserved higher PCS than Kozuka, although not nearly to the extend that the judges handed out, and I believe Kozuka should have been even further ahead of Chan on the tech mark, under the criteria of the CURRENT scoring system, putting him slightly ahead overall in the LP. Chan obviously deserved to win the entire competition by a long way when taking the SP into account.

  8. #623
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorcerer View Post
    Miki won't retire and will take in all the criticism and improve herself.

    Anyway, as a big Miki fan I am wrinting here my BIG CONGRATULATIONS hor her !
    Good to hear! She will be what?? 25 next year??? Will she be too old to be competitive??

  9. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderlen3000 View Post
    Good to hear! She will be what?? 25 next year??? Will she be too old to be competitive??
    I read somewhere she's taking a break next season. The word is "break", so she's not retiring yet as far as we know. But she won't be competing for a while at least.

  10. #625
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfoalfo View Post
    errmm who died and made you king?
    but really, who the hell are you to tell her or even make suggestions as to how she should handle her ALREADY SUCCESSFUL career??
    yeah she's got many years ahead of her but she's done enough to leave a legacy - OGM, WGM, GPGM, 4CCGM, never off the podium, headlining successful shows, (getting MK to skate again!) starting a skating revolution in Korea.. just to name a few.
    but dude, honestly... did she steal your lunch money? is that why you're always such a sour puss when it comes to Yuna? but whatever, your opinion's your opinion :sheesh:
    Wow I couldn't agree with you more. When I was reading Wallylutz's posts, I couldn't stop asking myself, what da heck is wrong with this person??? Seriously, some people come here not to have reasonable and legitimate discussions about figure skating, but to bash other skaters for no reason. This is just plain hating. I absolutely CANNOT believe wallylutz said "Though I hope she will take this lesson in strides and if she decides to remain eligible for ISU competitions that she comes back stronger next season and takes her skating career a little more seriously." This is just laughable. Yuna taking her career a little more seriously??!?! LOL Wow.

    Like you said, Yuna probably achieved everything a figure skater could dream to achieve... she acquired every possible title there is!!! Not to mention she has the highest world records AND I don't think I need to list all her other achievements....
    It's difficult to have a motivation to return to competitions after achieving everything that you could dream of. I mean, isn't that why it took Plushenko several years to return to the competition!!!!!!!!!??
    Anyone who's watched Yuna closely during her career knows how determined and hard working she is. If she wasn't, she would never have survived in the skating world with all the injuries that she suffered and all her other hardships that she went through.

    As a fan, I am just happy and thankful that she returned to the field and showed us beautiful performances... and I hope Yuna won't ever care about her unreasonable and disrespectful haters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    The judges did not assess the GOE of the performances correctly. Yu-Na's Lutz passes were each worth +1 more GOE than Ando's. Her 3-jump combo was worth +1 more GOE than Ando's. Ando's 3Loop should have received 0 GOE (it was barely rotated, you can see the skid on the landing) and her 2Axel+2Toe should have received -2 GOE for the sideways, barely-rotated 2Axel she executed and the stepout on the 2Toe portion. Ando's 3Toe did deserve half a point more in +GOE compared to Yu-Na's 1F, though. All in all, that puts Yu-Na ahead of Miki by 2.4 points in the comparative execution of their jumps. Yu-Na deserved an extra half point over Miki for her footwork sequence because of having superior edge quality and going with the music better. She deserved an extra point over Miki for her spiral sequence because it was faster, most definitely went with the music better, and was more difficult. That puts Yu-Na ahead of Miki by a total of 3.9 points in GOE for their performances. Hey, guess what, that means Miki is only ahead of Yu-Na in technical merit by .59 points. And considering I feel Yu-Na should have been ahead of Miki in PCS by 6 points, that puts her ahead by some way in the LP.
    100 % Agreed.
    Also, I tried watching both Yuna and Miki's performances without their music.
    If you haven't tried it, I suggest that you do, and you will see the difference between
    their performances. I wish Yuna won, and I do think that she deserved to have won. But regardless of the color of her medal, Yuna will always be the true champion to me.
    Last edited by figurejennah; 05-01-2011 at 01:30 AM.

  11. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlgpffps View Post
    Oh, random thought, but has anyone noticed that Mao's OTP the year after she becomes World Champ? 08 Gold, 09 OTP, 10 Gold, 11 OTP. Maybe another World title's coming up?
    It's good to hear. I guess she needs some positive comments and some rest.

  12. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlgpffps View Post
    Oh, random thought, but has anyone noticed that Mao's OTP the year after she becomes World Champ? 08 Gold, 09 OTP, 10 Gold, 11 OTP. Maybe another World title's coming up?
    Sorry what does OTP stand for please?

    One-Trick Pony? One True Pairing? On the phone?

  13. #628
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderlen3000 View Post
    What consistency???? I would agree Yuna is a one of a kind caliber compare to other skaters, but i wouldn't call her consistent. Of all her 5 WC, she didn't skate a single WC with clean Sp+LP. Let see:

    2007: 2 falls on LP
    2008: 1 fall in SP, 1 pop jump in LP
    2009: 1 badly underroatated 2S in Lp
    2010: 1 < jump, + missed spins and spiral, 1 fall and 1 poped jumps (prob her worst competition)
    2011: 1 set out in SP, one poped jumps and 1 minor mistake on singling a jump.....

    I would hardly call that consistent!! To be hornest her olympics performance was the most dynamic and cleanest of her career!! Don't get me wrong, Yuna did have the potential to match Michelle a complishment, but what stopping her from winning multiple WC title is herself...
    You forgot about the fact that Yuna was suffering from serious injuries during 2007 and 2009 WC. You also forgot to mention that she set most world records and she practically won every single other competitions during the seasons. Also, after the olympics, I read from an article that Yuna did not want to participate in WC and she couldn't even practice for a while, which is totally understandable. Everyone was actually really surprised that she participated in WC as a OG Medalist.

    Yuna was so consistent with her performances that in fact I remember everyone expecting to set a new world record every competition.
    Last edited by figurejennah; 05-01-2011 at 01:29 AM.

  14. #629
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    Quote Originally Posted by bibi24 View Post
    Sorry what does OTP stand for please?

    One-Trick Pony? One True Pairing? On the phone?
    I supposed to be Off-The-Podium.

  15. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderlen3000 View Post
    I would hardly call that consistent!! To be hornest her olympics performance was the most dynamic and cleanest of her career!! Don't get me wrong, Yuna did have the potential to match Michelle a complishment, but what stopping her from winning multiple WC title is herself...
    I meant consistent in general terms. My entire post actually wanted to emphasize the fact that Worlds has never been her very best competition, which is interesting given her usual consistenty. Yu-na is pretty consistent, actually, especially when it comes to her 3-3s. Recently, she's been very vulnerable, yes, but I was giving an assessment of her entire skating career. And I think it's rather unfair to highlight Yu-na's (overall) consistency in those terms (looking at just Worlds), since she was competing while injured in two out of five. I think her Worlds track record actually corrobrates my belief that she does indeed have a measure of consistency, since she's been able to medal in all events despite different difficulties. 2007, 2008 she was injured. 2010 she ran out of steam after accomplishing her amazing Olympic feat. 2011 she returned to competitive ice after a full year off, but still managed to remain competitive. If you put her performances in context, she wasn't too shabby.

    And really I think the fact that she's never been OTP her entire career is in itself evidence of her consistency unless you want to argue that consistent skaters must always deliver clean programs. Then it'd be interesting to see which skaters you would actually consider consistent.

    And frankly I don't understand why you're saying Yu-na didn't win multiple World Titles because of her own faults because I never said Yu-na deserves any of the titles she's lost. I'm sorry if my post was misleading (although I think my thoughts were pretty clear). I just said it's interesting she isn't a multiple World Champion. She's won 13 out of her 19 senior competitions, but out of the six she lost, four were Worlds. She just doesn't seem to have much luck when it comes to the WC.

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