Ice Dance - FD | Page 17 | Golden Skate

Ice Dance - FD

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Then you have to first be able to show any comments re: their appearance have been construed as facts as opposed to an opinion. :frown:

Good luck with that.

I think Spun Silver's got you on that one. ;)

You said:

Wallylutz said:
I'll be very frank, there are things that will count against them and I am not going to be PC about it:…

3) They are not good looking enough in the world of Ice Dance

On Point 3, maybe they will once they mature and become adults but at this point, the lack of a handsome man + attractive woman pairing can hurt your chance in the long run - yes, looks count for a great deal in Ice Dance no matter how wrong this may sound.

You have to admit that the tone of this post is rather along the lines of, “wake up, folks, here are the facts.”

Then in response to some “eye of the beholder" objections, you said:

wallyliyz said:
Do you want a PC / Canned answer or do you want to know the truth?

Are you now saying that instead of “the truth” what you really meant was “my opinion?”

When pressed about the difference between fact and opinion you continued on with:

wallylutz said:
If you are coming from the perspective of personal preference, then you are correct. Otherwise, you should know there are certain unwritten rules, mostly used by Soviet/Russians to discern and determine who should pair with who in Ice Dance. Given the Russians' influence and dominance on the sport of Ice Dance, many of these criteria such as height difference between partners and proportions, have been commonly used to assess the fit between partners. Also, you will note that in many of the criteria issued by ISU for Ice Dance, it contained a lot of references to the couple being well matched.

You can choose to look at this in very subjective and personal way, in which case, that's pageantry. Or, you can choose to learn about what are considered valued physical attributes in the sport of Ice Dance.

It sounds like you are making a pretty clear distinction between “the objective thruth about ice dance” and your opinion. Indeed, far from stating an opinion, you were lecturing us lesser mortals on the true objective reality of ice dance.

Well, you can refresh your memory by re-reading the Shibutani thread. ;)
 
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wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
I'd save W/P for an event with the Shibs, if that's possible. Maximise GPF possibilities. They might beat the Shibs. They won't beat V/M. And it's not as if SC needs another Canadian team to sell for the event.

Don't you worry, by attending Skate Canada with V/M, W/P will have one other GP event which they don't have to face V/M. In that other event, they will bump into either D/W or S/S, though it's not certain who it will be. If the powers to be really want to create a showdown between S/S and W/P, it's possible but unlikely because the other two teams in the 4-6 category happen to be France and Russia, meaning that W/P can't be sent to France or Russia due to category conflict with home teams. So, W/P's 2nd event can be Skate America, Cup of China or NHK. Given that Skate America takes place before Skate Canada, it's unlikely that SC would want W/P to begin their season outside of home turf. That means, W/P's 2nd event is 90% likely going to be Cup of China or the NHK. The Shibs can go to CoC or NHK but only if neither V/M and D/W pick these locations, which IMO, is not likely because that would mean V/M and D/W will end up doing France or Russia GP, both of which has a home team in the 4-6 category, making them potentially dangerous event. Although Tessa has a soft spot for Paris, that's beside the point. If I were V/M, I'd just go to Paris on my vacation time instead like she did last year as opposed to risking a potential upset in a hostile territory, now that P/B pretty much want blood and revenge after what happened today.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
I think Spun Silver's got you on that one. ;)

Mathman, I will engage in a debate on the use of English language with you if you are willing to change your handle from "Mathman" into "Englishman". BTW, how did you end up on CBC? Did you decide to renounce your American citizenship like Superman was reported doing this week as well or perhaps you are really the comic hero in disguise after all? :biggrin:
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Because it would probably be nice to return to Russia as World Champions.

And forgo all the publicity and marketing opportunities that comes with Skate America? Besides U.S. Nationals, Skate America is the 2nd most well known skating event in the U.S. That's why when Michelle Kwan chose to skip almost all events after she became too famous, she almost always does Skate America along with U.S. Nationals. I don't think D/W will give up the Skate America spot, they are not that altruistic.
 

blackswanphoto

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
I think they would. I believe Kwan wanted to stay closer to home and there are sometimes scoring advantages when competing in your home country, not that she needed them.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
The order of GP events....

Skate America
Skate Canada
Cup of China
NHK
TEB
Cup of Russia

So really not all that beneficial to a number of skaters from the host countries.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
I think they would. I believe Kwan wanted to stay closer to home and there are sometimes scoring advantages when competing in your home country, not that she needed them.

Interesting take, I don't agree but we shall find out in about a month or so.
 

colleen o'neill

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
;) I have to say, my truth is, Maia is fresh faced and pretty now , and I can well imagine her growing into one of those young women with the sort of mysterious beauty that fascinates and is greater than the sum of it's parts. Eye of the beholder.
 

blackswanphoto

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Davis and White seems to enjoy the International scene, in fact they have more success abroad than on the North American Continent. Kwan was the exact opposite. I think 90% of her biggest titles came on North American soil and in the later part of her career she seemed to not leave North America too often. She used to only really like to do Skate America and Skate Canada (The closest grand prix events to home). In fact I remember a comment Butyrskaya made "Let her come to Europe", regarding competing against Kwan. So even she seemed to notice a pattern.
 

blackswanphoto

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
I must say that Elena ILINYKH chic is absolutely gorgeous. She has the most potential of any female ice dancer in my opinion. But she is packaged alll wrong, her partner is not so good and their programs are terrible.
 

chloepoco

Medalist
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
I really enjoyed the Shibutani's; they deserved their bronze!!! And their reaction when the realized they placed is just too precious!
 

aniela

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
I really enjoyed the Shibutani's; they deserved their bronze!!! And their reaction when the realized they placed is just too precious!
I also loved Scott reaction when he found out that Shibutanis are on the podium. He was truly happy for them. that was too cute! :)
 

herios

Medalist
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
I must say that Elena ILINYKH chic is absolutely gorgeous. She has the most potential of any female ice dancer in my opinion. But she is packaged alll wrong, her partner is not so good and their programs are terrible.

I think people are blinded by her beauty. Indeed she is gorgeus and she will grow into a beautiful lady.
But as an ice dancer the most potential?
Meh. Her stroking is not that good. She needs to develop deeper edges. Long way to go. How she will develop remains to be seen.
 

iluvtodd

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Country
United-States
Congrats to Meryl & Charlie and all the medalists (the Shibutanis are wonderful and so cute). I did feel sad for Nathalie & Fabian - that was truly an unfortunate fall to an otherwise charming free dance. I hope they will still continue to compete.
 
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