Ice Dance - FD

[nadster]

t

Crone/Poirier: .... DO not give them easy Grand Prix events next season. Particularly not Skate Canada. Capiche? Okay. I think this dance is easily the most intellectually ambitious dance of the year. But clearly, it didn’t work for some people. It never really improved, and they made some changes that take away from it. I actually think that Poirier’s expressive capabilities are quite high, as are Vanessa’s, but something’s amiss in this performance. It’s disappointing.

I doubt they will get Skate Canada this time around. Skate Canada will use V/M to fufill the 1-3 slot and W/P to fufill the 4-6 requirement. The last Canadian team will likely be a TBA to be determined after Nebelhorn ( often used to determine who gets the 3rd Canadian spot at SC ). So in other words SC will likely use a team with low/no ISU ranking as the 3rd Canadian team and not a relatively highly ranked team like C/P who is guaranteed 2 GP slots off the bat.

[ImaginaryPogue]

I'd save W/P for an event with the Shibs, if that's possible. Maximise GPF possibilities. They might beat the Shibs. They won't beat V/M. And it's not as if SC needs another Canadian team to sell for the event.

[SkateFiguring]

Patrick hugging Scott backstage.

Slide show

[wallylutz]

I doubt they will get Skate Canada this time around. Skate Canada will use V/M to fufill the 1-3 slot and W/P to fufill the 4-6 requirement. The last Canadian team will likely be a TBA to be determined after Nebelhorn ( often used to determine who gets the 3rd Canadian spot at SC ). So in other words SC will likely use a team with low/no ISU ranking as the 3rd Canadian team and not a relatively highly ranked team like C/P who is guaranteed 2 GP slots off the bat.

Agreed completely. The interesting thing is the same strategy cannot be applied to D/W and S/S because they both fall into the 1-3 category. Assuming D/W gets Skate America, USFS will have to farm S/S somewhere else, likely in the turf of a potentially "hostile" country like France or Russia where they got home teams who will be eager to defeat these two young World Bronze Medalists since the Shibs can't go to Canada either due to conflict with V/M's category as well.

[blackswanphoto]

Agreed completely. The interesting thing is the same strategy cannot be applied to D/W and S/S because they both fall into the 1-3 category. Assuming D/W gets Skate America, USFS will have to farm S/S somewhere else, likely in the turf of a potentially "hostile" country like France or Russia where they got home teams who will be eager to defeat these two young World Bronze Medalists since the Shibs can't go to Canada either due to conflict with V/M's category as well.

Easy fix. Give S/S Skate America and NHK. Send D/W to Russia and France

[Mathman]

Then you have to first be able to show any comments re: their appearance have been construed as facts as opposed to an opinion.

Good luck with that.

I think Spun Silver's got you on that one.

You said:

I'll be very frank, there are things that will count against them and I am not going to be PC about it:…

3) They are not good looking enough in the world of Ice Dance

On Point 3, maybe they will once they mature and become adults but at this point, the lack of a handsome man + attractive woman pairing can hurt your chance in the long run - yes, looks count for a great deal in Ice Dance no matter how wrong this may sound.

You have to admit that the tone of this post is rather along the lines of, “wake up, folks, here are the facts.”

Then in response to some “eye of the beholder" objections, you said:

Do you want a PC / Canned answer or do you want to know the truth?

Are you now saying that instead of “the truth” what you really meant was “my opinion?”

When pressed about the difference between fact and opinion you continued on with:

If you are coming from the perspective of personal preference, then you are correct. Otherwise, you should know there are certain unwritten rules, mostly used by Soviet/Russians to discern and determine who should pair with who in Ice Dance. Given the Russians' influence and dominance on the sport of Ice Dance, many of these criteria such as height difference between partners and proportions, have been commonly used to assess the fit between partners. Also, you will note that in many of the criteria issued by ISU for Ice Dance, it contained a lot of references to the couple being well matched.

You can choose to look at this in very subjective and personal way, in which case, that's pageantry. Or, you can choose to learn about what are considered valued physical attributes in the sport of Ice Dance.

It sounds like you are making a pretty clear distinction between “the objective thruth about ice dance” and your opinion. Indeed, far from stating an opinion, you were lecturing us lesser mortals on the true objective reality of ice dance.

Well, you can refresh your memory by re-reading the Shibutani thread.

[wallylutz]

I'd save W/P for an event with the Shibs, if that's possible. Maximise GPF possibilities. They might beat the Shibs. They won't beat V/M. And it's not as if SC needs another Canadian team to sell for the event.

Don't you worry, by attending Skate Canada with V/M, W/P will have one other GP event which they don't have to face V/M. In that other event, they will bump into either D/W or S/S, though it's not certain who it will be. If the powers to be really want to create a showdown between S/S and W/P, it's possible but unlikely because the other two teams in the 4-6 category happen to be France and Russia, meaning that W/P can't be sent to France or Russia due to category conflict with home teams. So, W/P's 2nd event can be Skate America, Cup of China or NHK. Given that Skate America takes place before Skate Canada, it's unlikely that SC would want W/P to begin their season outside of home turf. That means, W/P's 2nd event is 90% likely going to be Cup of China or the NHK. The Shibs can go to CoC or NHK but only if neither V/M and D/W pick these locations, which IMO, is not likely because that would mean V/M and D/W will end up doing France or Russia GP, both of which has a home team in the 4-6 category, making them potentially dangerous event. Although Tessa has a soft spot for Paris, that's beside the point. If I were V/M, I'd just go to Paris on my vacation time instead like she did last year as opposed to risking a potential upset in a hostile territory, now that P/B pretty much want blood and revenge after what happened today.

[wallylutz]

I think Spun Silver's got you on that one.

Mathman, I will engage in a debate on the use of English language with you if you are willing to change your handle from "Mathman" into "Englishman". BTW, how did you end up on CBC? Did you decide to renounce your American citizenship like Superman was reported doing this week as well or perhaps you are really the comic hero in disguise after all?

[wallylutz]

Easy fix. Give S/S Skate America and NHK. Send D/W to Russia and France

Now, why would D/W want to forgo Skate America? Traditionally, the top team of the host country gets the home slot assuming no conflict.

[blackswanphoto]

Now, why would D/W want to forgo Skate America? Traditionally, the top team of the host country gets the home slot assuming no conflict.

Because it would probably be nice to return to Russia as World Champions.

[blackswanphoto]

Actually I think France could be their first choice. I don't remember them ever winning that one.

[ImaginaryPogue]

Interesting. I hadn't really thought about the order of the events.

[wallylutz]

Because it would probably be nice to return to Russia as World Champions.

And forgo all the publicity and marketing opportunities that comes with Skate America? Besides U.S. Nationals, Skate America is the 2nd most well known skating event in the U.S. That's why when Michelle Kwan chose to skip almost all events after she became too famous, she almost always does Skate America along with U.S. Nationals. I don't think D/W will give up the Skate America spot, they are not that altruistic.

[blackswanphoto]

I think they would. I believe Kwan wanted to stay closer to home and there are sometimes scoring advantages when competing in your home country, not that she needed them.

[ImaginaryPogue]

The order of GP events....

Skate America
Skate Canada
Cup of China
NHK
TEB
Cup of Russia

So really not all that beneficial to a number of skaters from the host countries.