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Thread: Ice Dance - FD

  1. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by herios View Post
    They got two assignments even when they were not ranked 4th in seniors, of course they will get them now, when they officially are. It will depend solely on them how they will fare internationally first, in compariosn to the actual top 3. Unfortunately for one of these 4 exceptional teams, one will be left home. So our nationals with a healty V/M should be a nailbiter. And in US will be no different, once Samuelson /Bates are back.
    To tell you the truth, Paul & Islam have not impressed me. He looked especially ordinary and the rumor is that this team got a lot of help because of Islam's mother and her esteemed status within Skate Canada and as well as the ISU. Without a doubt, Debbi is wonderful, I have just never impressed by her son. Maybe that will change. At this time, I am not even convinced that they will be able to challenge anyone at Top 3.

    I have also made my ambivalence towards Crone/Poirier quite clear in prior threads, but it wasn't personal. In my opinion, C/P needs coaching change and as well as materials that will work for them; they are otherwise quite talented. W/P just had better materials and skated better; hence, even before they finished 5th at Worlds and lesser results during the GP to C/P, many were already rooting for W/P to take over.

    But the exciting thing is this is a sport and we just need to wait and see what they come up with next season.

  2. #347
    Always supporting skaters :) 100yen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herios View Post
    I stand by my statement. They skate slow when it comes to their footwork sequences. Open your eyes.
    I wouldn't say their edges are that bad, but yeah, I did notice their footwork was on the slow side.
    I think Elena's strongest point is her ability to hit those lift positions and "posing" like no ones business.

  3. #348
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    Host picks are the first order of business for the GP.
    So the host picks would likely be:

    USA: [1] D/W. Can't pick [3] S/S. Will likely choose Samuelson/Bates, who can't get invites as they are not on the SB list, having sat out this season with injury.
    CAN: [2] V/M; can and might pick [5] W/P
    FRA: [4] P/B; can and might pick [12] C/J.
    RUS: [6] B/S; can and might pick [7] I/K
    CHN: H/Z and/or Y/W
    JPN: Reeds

    After the host picks, the hosts draw for selection of the 1-3 seeds, then the 4-6 seeds, then the remaining slots.
    There will be some limitations for each host based on the host picks.

    The seeds usually will declare their event preferences, which are usually (but not always for the 4-6 seeds) honored.

    Russia, who has the 6 seed, has to pick a 1-3 seed, and I think they will pick S/S, to set up a confrontation between S/S and I/K. France might do the same, to have a better chance of winning gold. Of course, the Shibs might state a preference for CoC or NHK, and not get stuck with two hostile events.

  4. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by herios View Post
    I stand by my statement. They skate slow when it comes to their footwork sequences. Open your eyes.
    They had a bad skate, it was not indicative of their talent. Anyone can have a bad day, counting them out is very dangerous.

  5. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by herios View Post
    I stand by my statement. They skate slow when it comes to their footwork sequences. Open your eyes.
    Their speed is a bit lower on step sequensces and sometimes they do it careful, but the speed is still great and there's no way they are slow

  6. #351
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    They had a bad skate, it was not indicative of their talent. Anyone can have a bad day, counting them out is very dangerous.
    I totally agree!

  7. #352
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    I thought their basic edgework is to die for. They slow down considerably in the step sequences, but I don't think that's because of faulty edgework, but the fact that they haven't skated together that long and are cautious.

  8. #353
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    I have also made my ambivalence towards Crone/Poirier quite clear in prior threads, but it wasn't personal. In my opinion, C/P needs coaching change and as well as materials that will work for them; they are otherwise quite talented. W/P just had better materials and skated better; hence, even before they finished 5th at Worlds and lesser results during the GP to C/P, many were already rooting for W/P to take over.
    Well, IMO, one successful championship by Weaver/Poje does not erase all the opportunities they have squandered in the past due to faulty mistakes. The problem with Crone/Poirier at this world championship was that they were for the first time facing the entire world with that SD of theirs that had not been well received by the international judges all season long. They were able to get by with it during the GP season because of the depleted playing fields. Placing in the penultimate FD group at 4CC was really the first red flag of what was likely to come at Worlds with that SD. When Vanessa botched the twizzle sequence at Worlds, they were really screwed! Placing below Chock/Zuerlein really confirmed this. Still, that FD of theirs is a true work of art as far as I'm concerned. I actually would have ranked it 2nd behind Davis/White of all the FDs performed at Worlds, and yes, I know that is not a popular opinion, but it is mine, nonetheless. I LOVE intellectual dances with original movements and long, clean lines. I felt the internal agony they were portraying in that dance. I hate the perception by so many that every ice dance has to have a loving, connected relation between the two dancers. I love people who dare to be different, and Crone/Poirier definitely embody this. Meryl and Charlie often receive the same criticism that they don't relate well with one another, but hey, they just won the World Championship, so obviously not everyone agrees with that criticism or with the idea that that component is such a big deal in ice dancing.
    Last edited by museksk8r; 05-01-2011 at 09:31 AM.

  9. #354
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    I agree museksk8r. Actually, I like both their dances more than most, but it's clear to me that a number of things this season didn't work for them and I suspect without analyzing where the coaches went wrong (it's not a big deal, to be honest - the SD is a new form, so it's not surprising that coaches/choreographers would sturggle to understand it), C/P will start declining in stature. I'm actually expecting a significant challenge from Paul/Islam next season. Floored you'd rank C/P second in the FD, though.

  10. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    I totally agree!
    I am not couinting them out. But thinking about them as they are the team to expect to win Sochi at this point is phantasy and specualtion for now. It will depend how they will develop. The fact is none of the top teams are stepping aside for now, and they will have to catch up to them. Until they get harder material, to see how they handle it, I am on the sidelines.

    Before the season begun, there was a lot of discussion which will be the number one russian team and many considered i/K to be the one. i thought B/S are going to be and I was right. They have not lost once to I/K.
    Even yesterday, with a very visible wobble by Dmitri early in their program, they defetead easily I/K. For me, B/S leg lines and how well they are matched makes them russian best shot at this point in time.

  11. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    I agree museksk8r. Actually, I like both their dances more than most, but it's clear to me that a number of things this season didn't work for them and I suspect without analyzing where the coaches went wrong (it's not a big deal, to be honest - the SD is a new form, so it's not surprising that coaches/choreographers would sturggle to understand it), C/P will start declining in stature. I'm actually expecting a significant challenge from Paul/Islam next season. Floored you'd rank C/P second in the FD, though.
    IP, have you seen yesterday Paul McIntosh in the studio? He thinks that C/P will revolutionize ice dance. And I am not hearing this for the first time. They have the best skating skills according to many, so with the right material, they should rebound and not fade away. I am fully expecting them to come back strong.

  12. #357
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    Hey, if I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it. Essentially me being wrong means that I get treated to great ice dance. That's my favourite kind of being wrong!

  13. #358
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herios View Post
    IP, have you seen yesterday Paul McIntosh in the studio? He thinks that C/P will revolutionize ice dance. And I am not hearing this for the first time. They have the best skating skills according to many, so with the right material, they should rebound and not fade away. I am fully expecting them to come back strong.
    I totally agree with this too!

  14. #359
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    Finishing this low now may be the best thing to happen to C/P. They are great--but they need better material, and as wally suggested, a new coaching team. If all of their rivals have coaches in Michigan (W/P sometimes train with Krylova/Camerlengo, and soon P/B will go there as well), perhaps their best bet is Linichuk in Pennsylvania, or Boucher Zazoui in Lyon.

    A bit OT, but congrats to S/S--the first ice dancers of Asian descent to win a medal at worlds!

  15. #360
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    I'm still shuffling everything about in my mind ,but I certainly don't think C/P should be written off. They're far too talented for that. The thing is, now we have a shorter run to the next season and it remains to be seen whether they'll take the proper message away from this competition.

    I think we mustn't just point the finger at Vanessa for her mistake in the twizzles ( and one has to wonder if the new boots played some part, there ). In my mind, not everything hinges on those twizzles , and I , for one, would not like to see her scapegoated .

    Since museksk8tr mentions C/Z , we've got to remember that they had a very good, accessible SD, and they skated it really well , not to mention that they did a phenomenal job of developing and polishing their FD throughout the season. I thought they deserved a to be a placement or two higher. I would have put them just above C/L instead of the other way around. ( but I was happy to see C/L back and skating as well as they did. They looked very slow earlier on ...was it Bompard ? and I was really worried for them at the time. )

    Dang ! Phone call..I'll have to come back.

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