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Thread: Should Flatt have skated at the World Championships on an injury?

  1. #211
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    How many base points are there for a smile? Skaters, particularly the Ladies are more concerned about their looks than the Men. Who cares if you are going for the points? (It is a contest.) How much closer should the Senior Ladies get to the smiles of the uninhibited little tykes in the Children's Pagaents or the serious smiles of the Ladies in Ms Universe?

    Is Ladies Figure Skating to be how pagaents are judged? No wonder the men of sports shy away from it. it's not like Evert v. Natrilova.
    Tell that to Evan and Johnny.

    Besides, the discussion really started out about who looks the most confident on the ice - and someone said Alissa looks nervous.

    It IS important in figure skating. If you want a sport where how you present yourself doesn't matter, figure skating is probably not the place to go.

    Maybe it's not the MOST important thing (Lord knows how many skaters have won competitions in fugly costumes) but I can't think of a sport where it is more important.

    And as for whether the women care more about how they look than the men - Ha.
    I wonder how much Evan payed Vera Wang for his Olympic costume? And how long did discussions around here go on about whether Johnny's costumes added or took away from his skating and whether they made him more of a "girly" skater or whatever it was. I would bet the men care and - a lot - about their image on the ice.

  2. #212
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    I'd say the men "care" about how they look, otherwise they wouldn't be wearing all those flowery costumes. they don't need it.

    Both men and ladies should be focused more on their performance than on what they are wearing.

  3. #213
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    I'd say the men "care" about how they look, otherwise they wouldn't be wearing all those flowery costumes. they don't need it.
    I think you mean the contrary: if the men cared at all about how they look, they would not be wearing all those those flowery and flamboyant costumes.

  4. #214
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    I think you mean the contrary: if the men cared at all about how they look, they would not be wearing all those those flowery and flamboyant costumes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    I think you mean the contrary: if the men cared at all about how they look, they would not be wearing all those those flowery and flamboyant costumes.
    Ha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    I think you mean the contrary: if the men cared at all about how they look, they would not be wearing all those those flowery and flamboyant costumes.
    Historically, when did men's costumes shift from the sweater or abbreviated jacket/tie look and skating pant look from back in the days of say, Dick Button...to a full out costume that was designed for the program the skater was performing? If you had to generate a list of "winning" costumes for the men from over the last ten years...in the sense that the costumes complimented the music and the choreography....who would be on that list? I prefer more traditional men's costumes (shirt/pant vs the onesy/unitard look).

  7. #217
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Toller Cranston really killed the old conservative costume thing.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7AZboQ0R08
    Even in his more drab moments, in 1974, there are still sparklies on his outfit.
    Costumes were fancy enough in the early 1980's that Scott Hamilton felt they had gone too far, and performed in his striped onesie sort of outfits.

    Brian Orser though was quite ornate:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqJbIefnsi0
    and
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFgEPqw09IU#t=0m32s

  8. #218
    Back on topic.
    Yes! Flatt had every right to skate even when injured. She earned the spot and that's the way the cookie crumbles.

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by ILoveFigures View Post
    Back on topic.
    Yes! Flatt had every right to skate even when injured. She earned the spot and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
    The "earning" part is controversial and questionable though. I think her FS score being 8 points higher than Mirai's at nationals was not right. After she skated, I thought it would be close but that Mirai would come out on top, but it ended up that Rachael came out on top, and it wasn't even that close so...idk. Placing ahead of Mirai at nationals would have been acceptable, but the margin should have been like 1 point, not 7, and then when Mirai beat Rachael by 9 points at 4CC, she should have been given the nod to go to Worlds instead, especially considering Rachael was clearly fighting an injury at 4CC.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Costumes were fancy enough in the early 1980's that Scott Hamilton felt they had gone too far, and performed in his striped onesie sort of outfits.
    his costumes were inspired and designed by speed skating. Honestly he looked just as dorky in that get us as he did in his most hated blue beaded costume.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    How many base points are there for a smile? Skaters, particularly the Ladies are more concerned about their looks than the Men. Who cares if you are going for the points? (It is a contest.) How much closer should the Senior Ladies get to the smiles of the uninhibited little tykes in the Children's Pagaents or the serious smiles of the Ladies in Ms Universe?

    Is Ladies Figure Skating to be how pagaents are judged? No wonder the men of sports shy away from it. it's not like Evert v. Natrilova.
    My feeling is that ladies care about looks because judges care about them, consciously or subconsciously. Audiences care about them, and consequently skating in general cares about them. In the days when skaters had enough clout to become spokespeople for nationally advertised brands, advertisers looked for either cuteness or glamor. I'm sure you can think of one or two top American lady skaters who did not become household words. They were talented but didn't look like Peggy or Dorothy. This is a pressure that's exerted more on ladies than on men, in just about every aspect of life. I don't like that the world is like this. But I can't bring myself to blame skaters themselves for trying to look like Hollywood creations.

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    The "earning" part is controversial and questionable though. I think her FS score being 8 points higher than Mirai's at nationals was not right. After she skated, I thought it would be close but that Mirai would come out on top, but it ended up that Rachael came out on top, and it wasn't even that close so...idk. Placing ahead of Mirai at nationals would have been acceptable, but the margin should have been like 1 point, not 7, and then when Mirai beat Rachael by 9 points at 4CC, she should have been given the nod to go to Worlds instead, especially considering Rachael was clearly fighting an injury at 4CC.
    In regards to the larger than expected margin between them--I think in terms of trying to compare both performances, Mirai benefits from the fact that her biggest mistake, the botched spin, visually didn't seem as serious as a fall, thus it's natural to think she deserved a higher score. But by the rules, it was an even costlier mistake than a fall as it was voided and resulted in zero points. Mirai got 4 points for her flying sit spin at 4CCs, and none at Nationals.

    I'm not saying that there is no argument for Mirai being ahead of Rachael at Nationals, and I agree the point spread was still too high, but that large 7 point difference was due in part to that costly voiding of the spin. Once that's factored in, I think the gap is debatable but not really controversial.

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    Flatt has always been held up at Nationals and everyone knows it. I mean c'mon even if Mirai didn't deserve to win in 2010 because of her underotated jumps Rachael beat her by 12 points!! Are you kidding me? Did any of the judges actually watch the two of them skate back to back? Racheal was over 200 points which was in Yuna territory at the time. It was a disgrace.

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Flatt has always been held up at Nationals and everyone knows it. I mean c'mon even if Mirai didn't deserve to win in 2010 because of her underotated jumps Rachael beat her by 12 points!! Are you kidding me? Did any of the judges actually watch the two of them skate back to back? Racheal was over 200 points which was in Yuna territory at the time. It was a disgrace.
    Yeah well, all the scores at nationals were hyped that year, not just at U.S. nationals. It was an Olympic year. The score at Japanese nationals and Canadian nationals were also huge. I was flabbergasted at first. But then I watched the Olympics and saw how huge the scoring was there too. Joannie Rochette's LP score was similar to Yuna's 2009 World LP score. I guess it's just what happens in an Olympic year.

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by ILoveFigures View Post
    Back on topic.
    Yes! Flatt had every right to skate even when injured. She earned the spot and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
    I agree that Flatt certainly "crumbled" at Worlds. Her skating was even worse at the GPF and after that fiasco she also said she was injured.

    Her team showed poor judgement twice this season letting her compete when she was physically unable to skate anywhere near her best.

    Just showing up is not enough. And let's face it, that is all she did at the GPF and Worlds.
    She was not prepared to compete at either event and it is ashame her team didn't give her better advice.

    Mirai needs to start living up to her potential. Flatt appears to have peaked two years ago.

    Whoever thought Alissa would be our top skater heading into 2012?

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