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Thread: Should Flatt have skated at the World Championships on an injury?

  1. #76
    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    In the interview after the LP Rachael herself said that she was going on vacation after Worlds and getting ready for school she also said it would take about a month for her injury to heal.
    I assume she knew this before going to Worlds. For whatever reason she decided to skate I feel bad for Rachael skating in that kind of pain. It was not like she was a favorite to medal.
    Was it for the 3 spots? Unless Rachael or her coach shares with us the reason behind her decision to compete we can only speculate on their reasoning. For now I will just accept that
    she was not in good shape, skated injured and bombed, that is fact.
    Last edited by demarinis5; 05-02-2011 at 05:03 PM.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    But there's the thing remember when Evan withdrew from Worlds? Evan and Frank were at the time notifying Jeremy and also Tom Z that Evan had a potential injury that might keep him out, so Jeremy should be prepared just in case. Why is it ridiculous or wrong for Frank to expect the same kind of sportsmanship.
    Maybe because Evan and Frank had agreed to withdraw. Do you think Frank would have made a phone call to the USFSA if Evan had wanted to compete? If Rachael wanted to skate, there was no way for Tom Z to advertise her injury to anyone. It is a matter of royalty.

    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    And as for Michelle medaled with an injury. Yu-na medaled with injuries. Rachael is not Yu-na/Michelle and not all injuries are the same. Rachael's long was a disaster, its hard to think that her practices were somehow going magically. Yu-na in contrast even badly injured is the best skater by far her country has. And besides clearly Yu-na was skating good enough to medal.
    This is a clear example of double-standard. Sure, Rachael is no Michelle, but this girl also deserves to have a fair opportunity that she earned from the National. There is nothing wrong with Rachael aiming to have a mini Yu-Na moment at Worlds. Too bad it didn't work out as she hoped for. But she tried, so there won't be any regrets and she will move on. Knowing this could be her last chance of competing at Worlds, deferring the college for a year to prepare for this event, how could she give up so easily? National pride is a good thing, but it shouldn't cost individual's dream.

  3. #78
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    The most memorable and admired skate with injury, from Wikipedia:

    Elvis entered the 1998 Winter Olympic games in Nagano, Japan as the heavy favourite, and was expected to become the first Canadian man to win an Olympic gold medal. Unknown to most of the world, Elvis had suffered a groin injury, and was also recovering from the flu which struck many other athletes during the Games. This left Elvis unable to take painkillers due to the possibility of failing his drug test. The first sign that something wasn't right was the downgrade of his quad-triple combination in the free skate. (It was scored as a triple-triple due to a minor glitch). The media, and most of the world, became aware of his injury only when Elvis doubled over in pain after his long program. His courageous and difficult performance did, however, earn him the silver medal, although he found it too painful to skate during the medal presentation ceremony, and limped onto the podium wearing sneakers. He chose not to attend the World Championships that year because he did not want to make his groin injury worse. After the Olympics, though, he gave an interview about the performance and wept when people referred to him as "gutsy" and "full of courage".

  4. #79
    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    ^^ ...and what a performance he gave, it was amazing.

  5. #80
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
    If skating had any popularity at all in the US this would be a bigger deal. As it is, Hersh will probably be the only journalist in the USA to try and get any mileage out of this.
    People play hurt all the time, in all sports, both popular and unpopular. No one ever makes a big deal of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by becalc
    I believe in the bylaws your suppose to notify the USFSA about an injury. And the USFSA then does get the option to replace you
    I don't think so. At least, I have not been able to find any such rule.

    Of course there are procedures in the bylaws for what happens if a skater withdraws due to injury.

    Quote Originally Posted by symmetry
    Maybe because Evan and Frank had agreed to withdraw...
    This.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring
    The most memorable and admired skate with injury, from Wikipedia:...
    And this.
    Last edited by Mathman; 05-02-2011 at 05:46 PM.

  6. #81
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Maybe because Evan and Frank had agreed to withdraw. Do you think Frank would have made a phone call to the USFSA if Evan had wanted to compete? If Rachael wanted to skate, there was no way for Tom Z to advertise her injury to anyone. It is a matter of royalty.
    Actually no. Frank/Evan started notifying them when they realized there might be a possibility. And as her coach Tom had a responsibility to look after her healthy and say NO.

    This is a clear example of double-standard. Sure, Rachael is no Michelle, but this girl also deserves to have a fair opportunity that she earned from the National. There is nothing wrong with Rachael aiming to have a mini Yu-Na moment at Worlds. Too bad it didn't work out as she hoped for. But she tried, so there won't be any regrets and she will move on. Knowing this could be her last chance of competing at Worlds, deferring the college for a year to prepare for this event, how could she give up so easily? National pride is a good thing, but it shouldn't cost individual's dream.
    What double standard. Yu-na skated well enough to medal. Rachael skated horrifically. Second, Yu-na informed the Korean federation about her injury and they decided that even injured Yu-na was their best shot at more than one spot. Do you seriously think the USFSA would have decided a THAT injured Rachael was a better shot.

    Michelle also skated well enough to medal. When Michelle was given a spot for a competition, and was injured to the point where she knew she wouldn't skate well-Michelle had the class to withdrew (in this case partially because she didn't earn her spot.

    As for the Elvis example, the big difference is Elvis wasn't skating at a World Championship, where his skate affected people's future other than his own. If Rachael had skated like this at the Olympics, I would have been fine with it because the Olympics is a once in a lifetime opportunity, and she's not going to be affecting next years spots. And also Elvis skated well enough to medal.
    People play hurt all the time, in all sports, both popular and unpopular. No one ever makes a big deal of
    Rachael was the one who choose to use this injury as an excuse. She choose to skate injured, because she thought she could do it, and then choose to use the injury as an excuse when she didn't skate well. Its perfectly valid and fair for US figure skating fans to respond back, by saying if your skating that bad, why didn't you withdrew, so we could put in a athlete who could skate well.

    Once again unlike GPF, Rachael's skate didn't just affect Rachael, and Rachael alone. Rachael affected our world spots for next year. In other sports sure athletes, skate injured, but those athletes DO get replaced if it grossly affects their performance. I'm sorry the fact that she was contemplating things like leaving out a 3lutz in her short program, means that injury was grossly affecting her performance.

    Rachael choose to skate injured fine, but that was HER choice. She did that fully knowing that 3 spots depended on her placement, and FULLY knowing that there were other athletes that were healthier than her, and would probably skate better. Fine she earned that spot. But you know what, she also has to take responsibility for that choice too. Its the oh I was so injured excuse that ticks me off. Nobody would have known for sure that Rachael was that injured, if she hadn't announced.
    Last edited by bekalc; 05-02-2011 at 06:00 PM.

  7. #82
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    For the longest time, Kim always blamed it on injuries when she skated terribly. Like 2007 worlds, 2008 worlds. Boohoo.
    So what? It's Rachael's spot. She's powering through it. That kind of attitude took her far in life and will take her further. Can't say the same about some of the posters.

  8. #83
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    ....

    Rachael choose to skate injured fine, but that was HER choice. She did that fully knowing that 3 spots depended on her placement, and FULLY knowing that there were other athletes that were healthier than her, and would probably skate better...
    Exactly. However, I'm ok with Flatt announcing her injury. (Imagine the backlash if she didn't say anything, and THEN it came out that she tried to skate through injury!) I'm NOT ok with the way Team Flatt handled the decision-making process.

  9. #84
    Rooting for the divas with Kwanford Spun Silver's Avatar
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    Maybe before the SP Rachael truly thought she could skate through the injury. After that, it would have been too late.

    Still... not to have even informed the USFSA makes either her or her coach look a bit selfish. It's not all about Rachael's career and Rachael's dreams. That third spot was at stake and is always a huge deal. I thought Alissa and an uninjured Rachael were sure to get it back.

  10. #85
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    For the longest time, Kim always blamed it on injuries when she skated terribly. Like 2007 worlds, 2008 worlds. Boohoo.
    So what? It's Rachael's spot. She's powering through it. That kind of attitude took her far in life and will take her further. Can't say the same about some of the posters.
    I don't like Kim's use of injuries. But once again Kim was injured enough in those cases to have to withdrew from earlier competitions. Three competitions Kim's country seriously wanted her to skate in, and she sort of needed to explain why she wasn't showing. I.e Asian Games/Korean Nationals (there was a huge to do then about if she'd still go to Worlds) and then Four Continents in Korea. So Kim HAD to disclose her injury. And Kim also medaled in both cases too. A HUGE difference. Once again, you skated well enough to medal but didn't win and injured, okay we feel sorry for you. You skate so poorly that its a horrific performance, when someone else could have replaced you....Different thing altogether.

    And I'm sorry powering through when you are just affecting yourself is one thing. Powering through when your actions affect others, is another thing altogether. I seriously hope Rachael is 3rd at next years Nationals, it would be quite nice Karma for her.

    ^ Exactly. However, I'm ok with Flatt announcing her injury. (Imagine the backlash if she didn't say anything, and THEN it came out that she tried to skate through injury!) I'm NOT ok with the way Team Flatt handled the decision-making process.
    Why should she announce her injury. It would have hardly come out. And even if there was speculation, people would have been like okay. And at the very least it wouldn't have been I placed that low because I was injured, and its not really my fault... I'm sorry but it was a total "its not my fault excuse."

    If Rachael truly was well enough to skate, than she's well enough to take responsibility for her performance and her placement. You don't choose to skate, do poorly, and then use the I was injured, so don't blame me for losing 3 spots. Schpeel.

    I remember Sasha Cohen refusing to say that she was injured after her Olympic performance. I respected that. She took responsibility for her skating.
    Last edited by bekalc; 05-02-2011 at 06:08 PM.

  11. #86
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    Getting three spots for American skaters is not a pririoty of the USFSA. Why is it put upon the athletes as the utmost important responsibility of their participation at Worlds, above and beyond their personal goals and ambitions?

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    Still... not to have even informed the USFSA makes either her or her coach look a bit selfish. It's not all about Rachael's career and Rachael's dreams. That third spot was at stake and is always a huge deal. I thought Alissa and an uninjured Rachael were sure to get it back.
    BOOM. It's all about individual vs. team. And it's especially so if Flatt was not planning on being in the mix next year. To vacate and leave only 2 spots, regardless of initial intention, does not put her or her team in the best light

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    As for the Elvis example, the big difference is Elvis wasn't skating at a World Championship
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Stojko
    Elvis suffered a serious ankle injury during practice for the Canadian Championships in 1995, but was determined to compete anyway. He began his short program but was not able to complete it due to the injury, and was awarded a bye to the 1995 World Championships. His 1995 World Championship skate is regarded as one of his most impressive competitive outings because he completed his full routine despite his still-unhealed injury. Although in second place after the short program behind American Todd Eldredge, Elvis won the free skate - and his second world championship - with a memorable performance which included a triple lutz-triple toe loop combination in the closing seconds of his program.
    Last edited by bibi24; 05-02-2011 at 07:07 PM.

  14. #89
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bibi24 View Post
    Once again bibi, Elvis skated well enough to win. Athletes absolutely compete injured all the time. And if an athlete can still do it in practice, and play through the pain fine.

    Evan skated injured when he won 2009 worlds too. But a year earlier he withdrew because he determined that he couldn't skate well enough in 2008 to do well. If Elvis had skated really poorly at that world championships, causing his team a spot, AND there had been another talented skater left behind, he absolutely would have been criticized.

  15. #90
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    I m the last to be Flatt fan and I m rootin for Mirai since vancouver, but to accuse a skater who skated injured that she should have thouht better is a stretch to me. this is what her team decided, with doctors and all, so I dont see the whole fuss. And they are athletes not puppets. If she was injured last minute then kudos for decidin to do it anyway. It was not like she was injured a month before and she is not the first to skate injured in competition but decide to do anyway.
    If Caroll said Mirai is ready(i find inappropriate this comment after an event has ended, and over an injured skater), Imho he should have made Mirai ready at Nationals to earn her spot.
    Finally i dont see the we lost 3 spots because they didnt lose 3 spots, they earned two (and US had two this season also)

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