Should Flatt have skated at the World Championships on an injury? | Page 7 | Golden Skate

Should Flatt have skated at the World Championships on an injury?

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Here is my take.

Rachael could have withdrawn.

She didn't.

Now can we get on with our lives?

Have you visited the Yuna thread lately, 2001 posts by the way. Folks are still debating about the Orser/Kim break up and the rumored Orser meeting with Mao. Mathman you should know better :)

This is figure skating and the boards would not be as much fun without a little drama. I could do without the bashing of any skater of course. That is not my idea of fun.
 

jeff goldblum

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
And I find it ironic that just three months ago Carroll was going on about how Mirai was not doing her job and being a slacker and whatever. Sorry, I don't buy it that she's suddenly cured herself of all her issues and magically doing 3X3 and Triple Axels.

Just to be clear, we know from practice reports at Nationals that Mirai was practicing the triple axel and triple-triple combinations, so I don't think it'd be magical for her to be doing them now, especially considering we've all seen her do triple-triples in the past. On the other hand Mirai herself seems to indicate in one of her tweets from a couple months ago that her triple axel is still half a turn cheated, so definitely not worth trying in competition.

But I generally agree with the posters who say this is kind of a non-issue. It's always fun to speculate of course, but you can say "if, if, if...." to eternity before realizing that none of those scenarios actually played out. Let's hope that Mirai comes to competition more ready next season, skates like she did at 4CC and fairly earns her spot on any team by beating other skaters skating at their best. And let's hope Rachael will recover from this injury and disappointing finish and that she will find inspiration in either continuing to compete or in pursuing her academic career.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
I hope that Rachael, little more than the pet of Natls judges retires.

It is sad she will be remembered as a selfish and inconsiderate skater who put herself ahead of our federation.

PS- where were you mathman when a 2000 + thread was going on knocking Sasha's comeback last season. :sheesh:

Sorry, but with all due respect you are proving to be less than fair but nothing wrong with Flatt UBERS defending their favorite.

I think Tom Z should be suspended for a year so other US coaches learn it is NOT OK to be so unethical.

Deceiving your own federation and getting caught should carry a price.
 

Serious Business

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
To answer the thread title: Yes.

The human body is a wacky instrument that can function just fine even when parts are malfunctioning, or let you down even when everything was going well. Any athlete who have competed long enough have competed at one time or another while sick or injured and have it not affect the results. No, it doesn't mean Rachael or any athlete should feel invincible, but it makes it perfectly reasonable for them to want to take a chance. It worked out in the short. She landed her 3flip, still managed a 2lutz and wound up 8th. Keep in mind the scoring in the short is much more sensitive to botched jumps (there are less jumps being attempted, and anything less than a triple for the solo jump is an auto -3). In the FS, her right toe pick jumps abandoned her completely, kicking her way down in the standings. But it's still a fact that she went into this competition and proved herself capable of the 3flip, 3loop, 3sal and the 3toe. She wasn't injured beyond the ability to compete for a good placement. The only reason for her to withdraw would be for the sake of her own health.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Clearly it is very very wrong to go to Worlds with a stress fracture and not go public with it before competing. But only if you're Rachael Flatt. If you're Evan Lysacek and end up winning the event, it makes you super-awesome - as noted before, he certainly went to 2009 Worlds with a stress fracture and we were later told it was keeping him from doing his hardest jump. How is Flatt's situation different? Carroll is definitely the pot calling the kettle black in this case.

FWIW, I enjoy Mirai much more than Rachael. But by the rules so many posters here seem so fond of, she earned her spot on the Worlds team. If her training indicated that she could skate at Worlds, why exactly should she have stayed at home? Carolina Kostner went to Worlds having been injured all season and unable to do a 3Lz. It didn't keep her off the podium. You don't always know ahead of time what effect an injury might have.
 
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R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
PS- where were you mathman when a 2000 + thread was going on knocking Sasha's comeback last season. :sheesh:

And I'd like to add that for those who thought I was hard on Cohen and Nagasu last year while giving Flatt a pass, like a former poster suspected...consider this thread. Whenever I think something is off, I will say so, regardless of who it involves.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Clearly it is very very wrong to go to Worlds with a stress fracture and not go public with it before competing. But only if you're Rachael Flatt. If you're Evan Lysacek and end up winning the event, it makes you super-awesome - as noted before, he certainly went to 2009 Worlds with a stress fracture and we were later told it was keeping him from doing his hardest jump. How is Flatt's situation different? Carroll is definitely the pot calling the kettle black in this case.

FWIW, I enjoy Mirai much more than Rachael. But by the rules so many posters here seem so fond of, she earned her spot on the Worlds team. If her training indicated that she could skate at Worlds, why exactly should she have stayed at home? Carolina Kostner went to Worlds having been injured all season and unable to do a 3Lz. It didn't keep her off the podium. You don't always know ahead of time what effect an injury might have.

These comparisons of Rachael to Evan, Carolina, Yuna, Yagudin, Michelle, etc are enough to make me barf. :disagree:

Talk about reading some clueless posts :sheesh:

Thank the skating Gods that Frank Carroll called out Tom Z on this. Maybe nothing will come of it but hopefully we won't see another US coach/skater pulling a "Flatt" anytime soon.

Wait til next season when Alissa, Mirai, Agnes, Christina and others are fighting it out for TWO spots.

I don't think this will be forgotten or FORGIVEN anytime soon.

Flatt fans will have to learn to accept and deal with such selfish and dishonest behavior from their favorite. :mad:
 
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evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total and pure BS mathman.

I can't recall any skaters competing at Worlds with a broken leg.

Maybe you can set the record straight.

Please.

No, maybe not broken legs specifically, but I remember Stephane Lambiel saying once that he didn't know a single skater who hasn't competed with an injury at one point or another.
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
These comparisons of Rachael to Evan, Carolina, Yuna, Yagudin, Michelle, etc are enough to make me barf. :disagree:

Talk about reading some clueless posts :sheesh:

Thank the skating Gods that Frank Carroll called out Tom Z on this. Maybe nothing will come of it but hopefully we won't see another US coach/skater pulling a "Flatt" anytime soon.

Wait til next season when Alissa, Mirai, Agnes, Christina and others are fighting it out for TWO spots.

I don't think this will be forgotten or FORGIVEN anytime soon.

Flatt fans will have to learn to accept and deal with such selfish and dishonest behavior from their favorite. :mad:

You are completely missing the point of Buttercup's post. Based on all your talk of 3 spots, I highly doubt that you would call Rachael "selfish and dishonest" for competing at Worlds if she skated well enough to earn back 3 spots for the US. And I really don't understand why the US earning 2 spots is so unforgiveable. It's not like the US ladies are strong as the Japanese ladies anyways.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
No, maybe not broken legs specifically, but I remember Stephane Lambiel saying once that he didn't know a single skater who hasn't competed with an injury at one point or another.

Yes, thankyou for the no brainer of an answer. :)

FYI, I have been very active in sports all of my life.

I was a very good (all-state) soccer player. I once tried to play a game with a stress fracture but 10 minutes into the game the coach pulled me out. He just looked and me and I told him my leg was killing me.

I wanted to play coz it was a championship game. The coach read me the riot act after the game. (Yes, he was "meaner" than Frank Carroll :laugh:

Needless to say, soccer is a sport and not a pageant. That coach NEVER picked me again to play on one of his teams. It was my loss and I paid a price for being irresponsible and selfish. I can tell you I never tried to pull that s _ _ t again.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Moreover LAmbiel has competed with worse injury than Rachel and many more!

how do you know it was not the US federation that pushed her to compete??How?
Plushenko had competed in Worlds 2005 after the push of federation to earn spots and he ended up withdrawing and with a surgery, has Rachel more influence in her federation?Maybe they knew about her injury and the whole decision is that she would skate anyway.

I dont know what exactly is the problem because Us had two spots also this season and previous season, it is not something new that they didnt get 3 spots.
 

Serious Business

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
While I don't think Rachael did anything wrong, her actions don't need a conspiracy to explain, seniorita. The USFS said they didn't know about her injuries, I believe them. Furthermore, why would they pressure Rachael into competing? Plushenko is much more dominant in his field than Rachael in hers, while Russia's men's field in 2005 was much weaker than even the US women's field in 2011. I seriously doubt the USFS felt they absolutely had to have Rachael at Worlds.

Rachael simply took a reasonable chance to compete. She landed her 3flip in competition one day, didn't the next. She couldn't have predicted that for certain, no one could've. She did her best with the spot she earned and that's that. No conspiracy needed.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
^ i didnt think there was a conspirancy, you misunderstood.
some pages before I said she took her risk and didnt work, she is an athlete and can have her decisions with her team. What I meant about Us federation was JUST that maybe the federation, Rachel and her team all together had the same decision, for her to skate at worlds to earn spots (if she withdrew after sp it would have been much worse for the spots).. I didnt know US federation has already declared they didnt know about injury, if that so, my speculation was fault.
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Yes, thankyou for the no brainer of an answer. :)

Then why don't you accuse all those other skaters who competed with injuries--some of them WORSE than Rachael's--of being "selfish and dishonest," then. Give it up, Hernando. It's clear that you don't like Rachael's skating, but all these personal attacks on her character are frankly juvenile and ridiculous. And before you accuse me of being a Rachael uber/fan, read my past posts.
 
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