Who should USFS select for Skate America?

[Joesitz]

^^^^
Good informative post! I didn't realize there was a rule about skating in Worlds for getting an extra event. In that case I would put in Jeremy and Adam and who else for SA. And Mirai and which two in SA. Just so they have 2 GPs. However,

I would not put either of the two newbees to be negated or negate one of them. Armin, at this point in time, would be my choice.

I would not put Czisny against Mirai. Both these gals have a fight elsewhere.

I'm not so sure Americans have strong skaters. I do believe they have competitive skaters but none of them are really obvious podium finalists.

We have 2 podium potential finalists in Ice Dance, and one possible to slip in if 8 teams are now qualified, but that is all I can see of the Americans

Much depends on the possible 'increasing of the number of Finalists'. That should be taken up in their annual pow wow.

[Mathman]

I think outside the US, Abbott and Rippon are much better known and bigger draws than the 3 US Nationals medalists. They have enthusiastic fans wanting to see them. In fact, I am pretty sure of this.

That is kind of ironic, actually. All three of Bradley, Dornbush and Miner are guaranteed two events, whether Skate America takes them or not.

So we should follow Joe's suggestion above and invite Jeremy and Adam to Skate America, and force the other host countries to take Bradley (if he competes), Dornbush and Miner whether they want them or not.

[Tonichelle]

I don't think Ryan's coming back. His latest tweets suggest he's done working hard

[CARA]

I think outside the US, Abbott and Rippon are much better known and bigger draws than the 3 US Nationals medalists. They have enthusiastic fans wanting to see them. In fact, I am pretty sure of this.

That's true. For instance, both are very popular in Japan, especially with ladies.

[Mathman]

Chock/Zurlein will face the Medal Winners from other countries, even in SA they will. NO? but I think they should not be pitted against the Shibs and D/W and possibly V/M, P/B, and that young Russian team I like.

In dance, here is the problem. Let's say the top seeds go like this:

Skate America: Davis and White, Bobrouva and Solviev, Cappelini and Lanotte

Skate Canada: Virtue and Moir, Weaver and Poje, Ilunykh and Katsalapov

Cup of China: Shibutani and Shibutani, Pechalat and Bourzat, Crone and Poirier

NHK: Shibutani and Shibutani, Weaver and Poje, Capellini and Lanotte

Eric Bompard: Virtue and Moir, Pechalat and Bourzat, Crone and Porier

Russia: Davis and White, Bobrova and Solviev, Ilunykh and Katsalapov

It is not possible for Chock and Zuerlein to avoid facing either Davis and White, Virtue and Moir, or Shibutani and Shibutani. In fact, they must meet one of these three in each of their two competitions. Which two events would give Chock and Zuerlein the best shot at the finals?

The other factor is that the USFSA does not send skaters to other events. The organizers of those events invite the skaters they want.

Off topic: Is it permitted for event organizers to offer top skaters money under the table, in addition to prize money, to come to their event? I have heard that Michelle Kwan got extra money like this (possibly directly from the TV networks?), but I don't know if this is true or not.

When she was roped into doing 2002 Skate America after all of the scheduled Olympic gold medalists withdrew, her agent said that the USFSA made Michelle "an offer that she couldn't refuse" to come in and save the event. I don't think Shep was talking about putting a horse's head in her bed.

[Mathman]

I am hoping the ISU will come up with rules that prevent the second scenario from happening. The federations who have the seeds should be required to ascertain their participation in the GP before the meeting. Last year, there was ISU grumbling over the low quality of some of the 'replacements' for late withdrawals.

It is not clear to me exactly how the ISU can prevent this from happening. No matter what a federation might "ascertain" in the spring, come fall a skater might change his/her mind and say, no, I'm not doing it.

[Joesitz]

I should read up on how the entrants are formed for the GP events. Please correct me if I am wrong:

All competitive skaters from the Worlds are eligible for Two slots for the GPs. Miner and Dorbush, if not invited at first selection process will eventually by the last selection will be selected.. That could mean Brezina and Verner both are elligible for two slots.

The BigSix hosts have the right to select their own Team of Three including those who did not skate in Worlds.

Non Worlds skaters are subjected to Invitations only for Two events.

The ISU will fill up any vacated slots by their list of best scores during the season outside of the Worlds.I dont know where Amar is on that list

A skater has a right to accept or refuse an invitation or a demand of their Fed to skate creating additional slots that only ISU can fill. (Injuries may happen.)

[merrywidow]

Interesting that noone has mentioned Brandon Mroz as a viable candidate for the 3rd spot at Skate America. He did quite well last year at his 2 GP events, winning a silver medal & a bronze, I believe. The boy does have a quad you know.

[janetfan]

Reading this thread feels like a walk through a Disney Pageant.

Are some of you serious

In sport if you want to be the best you have to beat the best.

Running and hiding is not sport although pageants are known for this quality.

Here is a tip from a long time fan.

Load up SA with some of the best USA skaters. Then try and get some of the best Intl skaters.

Let's try and be competitive, not to mention relevant.

I know US Skating set up SA last season for Rachael to win. Boo, booo because the dirtbags that run SA should have known Kanako is not just better but much more appealing. She won the title and stole the show.

And that's the way it should be.

Hiding and running scared is guaranteed to give the opposition a boost. A BIG BOOST.

Competing your best and accepting all challenges is the way to go. That's the way SA used to be when people actually gave a damn about it.

It is sad now and sadder still how fans run from competition trying get their favorites into the GPF.

Hello, sorry to break the news but I would say 90 + % of Americans do not know what the GPF is. They don't watch it and most never heard of it.

Marketing 001 (beneath 101) says pack SA and try and make it as appealing as possible.

Cowards never win championships and don't deserve to .

[chuckm]

I should read up on how the entrants are formed for the GP events. Please correct me if I am wrong:

All competitive skaters from the Worlds are eligible for Two slots for the GPs. Miner and Dorbush, if not invited at first selection process will eventually by the last selection will be selected.. That could mean Brezina and Verner both are elligible for two slots.

The BigSix hosts have the right to select their own Team of Three including those who did not skate in Worlds.

Non Worlds skaters are subjected to Invitations only for Two events.

The ISU will fill up any vacated slots by their list of best scores during the season outside of the Worlds.I dont know where Amar is on that list

A skater has a right to accept or refuse an invitation or a demand of their Fed to skate creating additional slots that only ISU can fill. (Injuries may happen.)

All skaters who finish in the top TWELVE at Worlds are guaranteed two spots. That would include both Dornbush (9th) and Miner (11th).

Skaters who finished 13-24 are NOT guaranteed two spots. If they were 1-24 on the World Ranking list OR the Seasons Best Score list, they are guaranteed ONE spot. They might get two, but that is not guaranteed.

The selection order is this:
Host picks - 3 in each discipline for each host
Seeds - Each host gets 1 of the 1-3 seeds and 1 of the 4-6 seeds in each discipline
Worlds 7-12 - Each host gets 2 in each discipline from this category
World Ranking top 24 - of those not already selected, at least one per host/discipline
SB list top 24 / JGPF medalists / JW medalists - of those not already selected at least one per host/discipline
After all guarantees have been fulfilled, the final selection is to fill still-empty slots. Here is where skaters/teams who have only one or no assignment get a first or second assignment.

Armin Mahbanoozadeh is #32 on the World Rankings, but he is #20 on the Seasons Best list, so he is guaranteed at least one invitation.

Brandon Mroz is #22 on the World Rankings and #17 on the SB list, and is guaranteed one invitation, but it is likely that he will get two.

[Joesitz]

Interesting that noone has mentioned Brandon Mroz as a viable candidate for the 3rd spot at Skate America. He did quite well last year at his 2 GP events, winning a silver medal & a bronze, I believe. The boy does have a quad you know.

OOPS. He has high Tech enough to be a winner at Nationals. Of course he should be considered for a slot in SA.

[Mathman]

I should read up on how the entrants are formed for the GP events....

Joe, here is a very nice description of the whole selection process. This was posted by chuckm in the Dance thread in worlds.

What follows is the selection procedure that was implemented last year. There may be changes in this procedure (for example, it's been suggested that instead of the 'top 75 on the Seasons Best Score list' rule, there may be a stipulation of the lowest score permissible based on a percentage of the highest score in each discipline). We won't find out about any changes until the GP document is issued by the ISU after the fact.

The first step is the hosts each select 3 skaters/team from their own countries in each discipline as their "host picks". There are no qualifications (no Seasons Best score requirement, e.g.).

After each host has named its host picks, the process for selecting the remaining skaters/teams begins.

In each invitation group, the hosts draw for selection order.

The first phase is seed selection. The top seeds may make their preferences known before the selection process and usually they are honored. I suspect the seeds may be pre-negotiated before the selection process even starts. I suppose if a seed didn't get their preference, he/she/they would just have to accept it.

Seeds 1-3 are drawn first. The number of seeds available for selection depends on how many remain available after the host picks. Then each host who has not already picked a seed (via host pick), in order of draw, selects a seed.

There is another draw for selection order for Seeds 4-6.

When each host has selected two seeds, one from 1-3 and one from 4-6. Seed selection is complete.

Next, there is a draw for selection order for skaters who have placed 7th-12th at Worlds. In draw order, each host selects two from this group. When all the skaters/teams in this category have each been named for two invitations, the selection is complete.

Next, there is a draw for selection order for skaters who have been guaranteed at least one invitation, either by being in the top 24 on the World Ranking list, or by medaling at the JGPF or JW. Each host may select two skaters/teams from this category. The main qualification for this category is that the skaters must rank in the top 75 on the Seasons Best score list. This may disqualify Samuelson/Bates from receiving invitations from other hosts, since they didn't compete last season due to injury.

Next, there is a draw for selection order for skaters who have achieved a score in the top 24 on the Seasons Best list who have not already been selected under another category. When all skaters/teams in this category have been named at least once, this category is complete.

There is one more draw for selection order for skaters to fill up the remaining vacancies. Hosts may then select a second event for skaters already named, or a first event for skaters not falling into one of the 'guaranteed' categories. Top 75 on SB list is a requirement for selection in this category also.

Hope this helps.

Added to that: According to the latest ISU communication (linked in the thread about bonus money), the ISU intends to allow a skater to participate in three events next year, subject to "certain conditions that will be published in the Announcement for the ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating."

This will throw a money wrench into any possible speculation at this point. I guess we will just have to wait and see what's up.

For what it's worth, I agree with Hernando's point of view in the post above (although I am not sure it is necessary to beat the table quite so bombastically to express it. )

[CARA]

I should read up on how the entrants are formed for the GP events. Please correct me if I am wrong:

All competitive skaters from the Worlds are eligible for Two slots for the GPs. Miner and Dorbush, if not invited at first selection process will eventually by the last selection will be selected.. That could mean Brezina and Verner both are elligible for two slots.

The BigSix hosts have the right to select their own Team of Three including those who did not skate in Worlds.

Non Worlds skaters are subjected to Invitations only for Two events.

The ISU will fill up any vacated slots by their list of best scores during the season outside of the Worlds.I dont know where Amar is on that list

A skater has a right to accept or refuse an invitation or a demand of their Fed to skate creating additional slots that only ISU can fill. (Injuries may happen.)

Joe, and those who are interested in the GP selection rules might want to read up the excellent dicussions/explanations at pp.24-27 of "Ice Dance - FD" within World Figure Skating Championship Folder. Chuckm, Mathman, ImaginaryPogue, Wollylutz, & those who are knowledgeable really lays out the rules. I learned a lot, and that's part of the reasons I hang around GS beside being an enthusiastic figure skating fan!

[CARA]

Joe, here is a very nice description of the whole selection process. This was posted by chuckm in the Dance thread in worlds.

Oops, Mathman, you beat me to it.

[Mathman]

^ And chuckm beat me, just above.