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Thread: Who should USFS select for Skate America?

  1. #46
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    Indeed!

  2. #47
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    ^^^
    Sorry, you are Gung Ho, and I am a Stratagizer. True about the US and the GPs, but the ladies that lunch will be there. No one will travel to San Jose except the skaters and their family. There may be some fans from San Francisco nearby who will attend. Flying is weird with so many fees. I suspect eventually one will have to pay to use the toilets.

    The finances for the event may be helped using the fans favorites but many will be watching on some sort of TV. How much cut does the USFS get from NBC's unisports? I dunno nor do I care.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    All skaters who finish in the top TWELVE at Worlds are guaranteed two spots. That would include both Dornbush (9th) and Miner (11th).

    Skaters who finished 13-24 are NOT guaranteed two spots. If they were 1-24 on the World Ranking list OR the Seasons Best Score list, they are guaranteed ONE spot. They might get two, but that is not guaranteed.

    The selection order is this:
    Host picks - 3 in each discipline for each host
    Seeds - Each host gets 1 of the 1-3 seeds and 1 of the 4-6 seeds in each discipline
    Worlds 7-12 - Each host gets 2 in each discipline from this category
    World Ranking top 24 - of those not already selected, at least one per host/discipline
    SB list top 24 / JGPF medalists / JW medalists - of those not already selected at least one per host/discipline
    After all guarantees have been fulfilled, the final selection is to fill still-empty slots. Here is where skaters/teams who have only one or no assignment get a first or second assignment.

    Armin Mahbanoozadeh is #32 on the World Rankings, but he is #20 on the Seasons Best list, so he is guaranteed at least one invitation.

    Brandon Mroz is #22 on the World Rankings and #17 on the SB list, and is guaranteed one invitation, but it is likely that he will get two.
    Thank you soooo much Chuckum. I wanted to understand how the GPs work, and I trust you gave me corrective criticism.

    I plan on hibernating soon. If I am still breathing, I will be back for the GPs. In the meantime, I will be checking the ISU for changes in the GPs and other competitive doings.

  4. #49
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Why do I get the feeling you are more interested in having Jeremy and Adam redeem themselves at SA than in any other GP event?
    What is so important about SA that it is not important elsewhere? That's the trouble I have with this thread. It speaks only of raising funds for the USFS and not the sport of figure skating.

    I am not in a position of predicting how the USFS handles it. Just hoping they consider the sport as well as the financial interest.

    What I would like to see would be all the American boys skate a "B" comp or similar events in the US before the GP events. I believe Chan skated one last year in the big one in Pennsylvania.
    Get whatever feeling you want. If it makes you feel better, I have no pull with the USFS so you don't need to worry so much or get so annoyed about what I think.

    Yeah, I think having Jeremy at SA would both add to its competitiveness and help make it appealing. It comes down the same thing as fans like to be able to watch the most competitive skaters. I hadn't thought about him redeeming himself. Of course, I hope he does in a general sense because he's a great skater. But he could do that an any event. He doesn't need SA. I wasn't thinking that way.

    Whatever American skater competes at SA, a victory or medal would mean a lot more if some of the best skaters from around the world were there too. That should be the goal for all the GP events, not just SA.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
    Reading this thread feels like a walk through a Disney Pageant.

    Are some of you serious

    In sport if you want to be the best you have to beat the best.

    Running and hiding is not sport although pageants are known for this quality.

    Here is a tip from a long time fan.

    Load up SA with some of the best USA skaters. Then try and get some of the best Intl skaters.

    Let's try and be competitive, not to mention relevant.

    I know US Skating set up SA last season for Rachael to win. Boo, booo because the dirtbags that run SA should have known Kanako is not just better but much more appealing. She won the title and stole the show.

    And that's the way it should be.

    Hiding and running scared is guaranteed to give the opposition a boost. A BIG BOOST.

    Competing your best and accepting all challenges is the way to go. That's the way SA used to be when people actually gave a damn about it.

    It is sad now and sadder still how fans run from competition trying get their favorites into the GPF.

    Hello, sorry to break the news but I would say 90 + % of Americans do not know what the GPF is. They don't watch it and most never heard of it.

    Marketing 001 (beneath 101) says pack SA and try and make it as appealing as possible.

    Cowards never win championships and don't deserve to .
    The short version: the best don't meet each other until the GPF. Kozuka won't meet Chan until the GPF. Oda and Takahashi won't meet until the GPF. So the way the GP circuit is set up is designed so that the best don't meet each other until the GPF. So I really don't understand what your pontificating about.

  6. #51
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    for all competitions that go through eliminaiton rounds, the match ups are always designed to prevent the best form meeting up early so one of them would be knocked out. As much as possible, a final is when the best come head to head.

    GPF series skater selection process is based on the same principle so the GPF will hopefully be when the best come together for the ultimate contest. Of course, anybody can step up along the way to upset the expectation.

    Load up SA with some of the best USA skaters. Then try and get some of the best Intl skaters.
    SA has to go with selection criteria as established by ISU.

    Marketing 001 (beneath 101) says pack SA and try and make it as appealing as possible.

    Cowards never win championships and don't deserve to.
    Yes, ISU understand Marketing 001 as well and they have a whole series and the Final to sell.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    SA has to go with selection criteria as established by ISU.
    Yes. That is the central fact that seems to be missing from this thread.

    The two competing views are (as Joe puts it ) gung-ho or strategy?. Unfortunately, within the rules neither is actually possible.

    Still, employing what the little wiggle room we have, doing just the ladies I think Skate America should invite crowd pleasers Czisny (host pick and also possibly 1-3, Kim and Ando withdrawing), Murakami (defending Skate America champion, moving up to 4-6 -- and working out a deal for NHK to take the Shibs), Nagasu (USFS should be pushing her like crazy in the U.S.), and people's choice Zawadski Chips fall as they may.

    But now we will have to wait and see what the new rules are going to be about skaters doing three events.

  8. #53
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    The short version: the best don't meet each other until the GPF. Kozuka won't meet Chan until the GPF. Oda and Takahashi won't meet until the GPF. So the way the GP circuit is set up is designed so that the best don't meet each other until the GPF. So I really don't understand what your pontificating about.
    Hmm. That's true actually and seem sensible. Kinda like the World Cup. Unless the best royally mess up like Mao and Jeremy did last year...

  9. #54
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    Kinda like many tournaments. The Stanley Cup playoffs: The top team in one conference plays the lowest qualifying team (1st vs 8th, 2nd vs 7th, etc). And they go through that repeatedly.

    In the English Premier League, the title is bestowed after the end of the season based on points earned via games won/tied.

    If winning Skate America was a result in-and-of itself, as I suspect it was before the GP series, than Hernando's assertion makes sense. But it's no longer so, and pretending otherwise just muddles an entertaining conversation.

    But, the only way to do this "correctly" is to imagine all the debates and behind the scenes chicanery, which means trying to do all of them at once. Anyone up for it?

  10. #55
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    If skaters are allowed to compete at 3 events, how are the events chosen for topseeds 1-3 and 4-6? I mean, this would mean that topseeds would meet each other before the Final. Do topseeds have to tell if they want to compete at 3 events, or are they just given like 2 spot are automatically given? (Not that I think topseed would actually choose to do 3 event.)

  11. #56
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    ^ Here is the entirety of the information that the ISU has given us so far. (From ISU Communication 1671):

    9. ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating and ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating. For the ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating (senior) the Council decided to give the possibility to seeded Skaters to skate 3 Grand Prix events per season under certain conditions that will be published in the Announcement for the ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating.
    By the way, they are also cutting down the junior grand prix finals to only six skaters instead of eight.

    For the ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final the Council decided upon a reduction of entries for the Junior Ladies and Men into the Final from 8 down to 6 entries. Since the Council took the same decision during its previous meeting (see ISU Communication 1655) for the Pair Skating and Ice Dance disciplines, it means that for all disciplines there will be 6 entries only into the ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final.

  12. #57
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    So much is said about WHO should the USFS select for the one venue of the GP series. it is a guessing game if one takes the series seriously. Is the GP a serious competition? Is it a showcase for the next Worlds? The purpose of the Series, as I see it, would be to make the Series Final. What I get out of it, is the chance to see again, the top skaters of each of the Worlds Federations - not unlike the Worlds itself. What the Federations may (I'm not certain) get out of it is some money. What the skaters get out of it, is competing, not unlike other competitive sports.

    The Worlds is the Green Jacket of Golf, but all of the PGA Tour is important as is the GP Series. What about the WHO shoulds of the other BigSix? That's important to think, and Japan Fed has to face a selection of three from 4 top athletes in the Mens.

    My mind in this is strictly for strategizing the contestants, and not have them compete against each other at least in their home base.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    If winning Skate America was a result in-and-of itself, as I suspect it was before the GP series, than Hernando's assertion makes sense. But it's no longer so, and pretending otherwise just muddles an entertaining conversation.

    ?
    Sorry if you think I am not playing by the "pageant" rules.

    My point is that SA is not doing well and it could make a difference if US Skating tried to get a strong roster of US Skaters competing there.

    For instance, our Dance team is strong right now.
    I suggest D/W and the Shibs at SA. The Shibs in particular are new and it would be good for US fans to see them at SA, whether in the arena or watching on TV.

    For the Ladies why not Alissa and Mirai, far and away our two most popular skaters.

    For the Men Jeremy and maybe Dornbush.

    The truth is that I don't place much importance on the GPF. To put that in perspective, I care much more about a SA that would be stronger and would like to see it regain some of it's lost lustre.

    Now back to the fantasy world of sending skaters off to different events.
    Last edited by janetfan; 05-04-2011 at 08:41 AM.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
    For instance, our Dance team is strong right now. I suggest D/W and the Shibs at SA.
    Davis and White and the Shibutanis cannot compete in the same event.

    That is the problem with both Joe's "strategy" idea and the idea of "strongest event possible." The ISU rules prevent both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    If winning Skate America was a result in-and-of itself, as I suspect it was before the GP series,...
    Indeed it was! There used to be something called the North American Championships, held alternately in Canada and the United States.

    Well, you can see the problem. With only two countries participating and an odd number of judges, obviously whichever country had the majority of judges on the panel always won.

    Finally, in 1973, Canada refused to attend. They cited the judging travesty, but the real reason was that they had Skate Canada in the works. A few years later the United States retaliated by holding Skate America. Both of these events were very prestigious for many years, until the Grand Prix came along and took the wind out of their sails.

    But it's no longer so...
    I disagree. I think the skaters disagree, too.

    I know I would be tickled pink to win Skate Anything.

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