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Thread: Who should USFS select for Skate America?

  1. #76
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    After I wrote that, it occurred to me that if the ISU really is going to change the rules to allow seeded skaters to do three events, then they will have to allow two skaters from 1-3 at the same competition.

    So maybe next year, under the new rules, we can have both the Davis and White and the Shibutanis at the same event.
    Sorry, I didn't know the new Rule yet. I'll get around to it and others during my annual hibernation. There must be more to this dividing up the BigSix events. It begs the question when something is not broken, why fix it. Oh, the cynic I am.



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    Last edited by Joesitz; 05-04-2011 at 02:32 PM.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by CARA View Post
    Joe, and those who are interested in the GP selection rules might want to read up the excellent dicussions/explanations at pp.24-27 of "Ice Dance - FD" within World Figure Skating Championship Folder. Chuckm, Mathman, ImaginaryPogue, Wollylutz, & those who are knowledgeable really lays out the rules. I learned a lot, and that's part of the reasons I hang around GS beside being an enthusiastic figure skating fan!
    Thank you Cara. I did respond to first explanation of Chuckum's but somehow it disappeared. I didn't notice anything too drastic about using Elite skaters for a third event except for Pairs. Without repeating that entire response, I would like clarification on Marley/Brubaker chances to be in the GPs.

  3. #78
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    It begs the question when something is not broken, why fix it. Oh, the cynic I am.
    But then again, why be afraid of change?

    I think there is something broken about the Grand Prix. Namely, no-one gives a rusty hoot about the individual events. Its all about trying to accrue enough points to get into the finals.

    Why bother to attend Skate America or to try to watch NHK on television? All I have to do is read the newspaper the next day to see how many points someone got. The competitions themselves have become less and less interesting over the years. (JMO, of course.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    There were seldom more than one international in any given event. It was Americans plus one from Canada usually.
    I liked them. The competition was often better that at the typical Grand Prix event.

    There were two kinds of cheesefests. Events that were sanctioned by the ISU as “international” were required to have a certain number of skaters from different countries. I think the rule was that three different countries had to be represented.

    The other events were designated on the ISU event calendar as “national events.” These were for American skaters only.

    For instance, in 2004 all three of the cheesefests were international. The April Marshalls has skaters from USA, Japan, Russia, and France. The ISU judges were from FRA, JPN, RUS, CAN, and USA.

    The December Marshalls had skaters from Russia, USA, and France. Judges were from JPN, USA, RUS, FRA, and CAN.

    The October Campbells had skaters from USA, Japan, Hungary, Canada, and France. Judges were from USA, CAN, RUS, FRA, JPN

    The next year, 2005, was the Olympic year and the cheesefest sponsors decided to showcase the American skaters only.

    After that, the bottom fell out of the figure skating market and these shows disappeared.

  4. #79
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    ^^^
    I'm not so sure about no one caring about the individual events. Those who look at competitive figure skating care. It's just the arm chair ones who like the gimmicks that don't give a hoot, but they will look at them for the sake of perceived art while serious fans look at new skaters on the block, improvements in Tech, Performance, and overal all competitive skating whether they make the finals or not. But you could be right that some fans only want to watch the seeded skaters. well, so be it. I, and others like to take it all in.

    Enough on the Cheesefests, we'll agree to disagree on that topic as to whether they were the next best thing to Worlds.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    I feel the same way about Cynthia Phaneuf.
    What, you don't like suspense?

  6. #81
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    Christina Gao!! And Richard Dornbush.

  7. #82
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    Imaginary pogue: Great analysis in post #66. I have read it 5-6 times and am still learning things.

  8. #83
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    I don't think many are aware that the ISU has decided to cut the number of entries for the GP events.

    LADIES and MEN: 10 entries, down from 12
    DANCE: 8 entries, down from 10
    PAIRS: remain at 8

    With seeds being allowed to do 3 events, that drastically reduces the number of slots available for other skaters. I've heard that guarantees will no longer be given to JGPF/JW medalists. I wouldn't be surprised to find that the ISU will cut back on the other guarantees (top 24 World Ranking/top 24 Seasons Best score list) as well. Given the shrinkage in the number of spots available, many fewer skaters and teams will get two events, so there is likely to be little suspense as to who will make the GPF.

    Oh, and the JGPF will be cut down to six finalists from 8.

  9. #84
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    Unlike a federal government, ISU can't print money. They have to take austerity measures, especially after the loss from the original Worlds being cancelled. Hopefully, the popularity and the financial resourses for figure skating will rebound. They can at least rotate location wise. After all, rotation is a figure skating specialty!

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    I don't think many are aware that the ISU has decided to cut the number of entries for the GP events.

    LADIES and MEN: 10 entries, down from 12
    DANCE: 8 entries, down from 10
    PAIRS: remain at 8

    With seeds being allowed to do 3 events, that drastically reduces the number of slots available for other skaters. I've heard that guarantees will no longer be given to JGPF/JW medalists. I wouldn't be surprised to find that the ISU will cut back on the other guarantees (top 24 World Ranking/top 24 Seasons Best score list) as well. Given the shrinkage in the number of spots available, many fewer skaters and teams will get two events, so there is likely to be little suspense as to who will make the GPF.

    Oh, and the JGPF will be cut down to six finalists from 8.
    Oh, no! This is awful.
    Does ISU had a PR and sales specialists? Professional tennis federation suffered a similar financial demise, but they are rebounding nicely. I wish the figure skating federation consider business aspects more.

  11. #86
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    ^^^At least the tennis federation never had to have suffered from earthquakes, a tsunami, and nuclear meltdown threats. ISU is a minor victim of these disasters relatively speaking. It is a rough time to get over, and to rebuild from. After all, we managed to have enjoyed a successful World Championships.

  12. #87
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    Sure, the ISU will save $ by not having to pay for hotel rooms for 8 people. But they could have saved even more money if the ISU contingent didn't stay in the most expensive hotels in every GP city. There's a whole lot more than 8 of them!

    Just wait. In another year or so, the GP events will be down to 6 and it'll be the top 12 from Worlds doing reruns for 3 months.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by CARA View Post
    Does ISU had a PR and sales specialists?
    I don't know about the ISU, but the USFSA is trying their best. However it is like the Red Queen in Alice Through the Looking Glass. Considering the market forces arrayed against us, it takes all the running we can do just to stay in the same place.

    When the USFSA contract with ABC expired, the USFSA created a new post, Executive Director, just to address marketing issues. Both of the two people who have held this position have had extensive experience in sports TV from the marketing and business side. But... :(

    On the international level, the Grand Prix may go out of business if it can't pay for itself.

  14. #89
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    I don't think many are aware that the ISU has decided to cut the number of entries for the GP events.

    LADIES and MEN: 10 entries, down from 12
    DANCE: 8 entries, down from 10
    PAIRS: remain at 8

    With seeds being allowed to do 3 events, that drastically reduces the number of slots available for other skaters. I've heard that guarantees will no longer be given to JGPF/JW medalists. I wouldn't be surprised to find that the ISU will cut back on the other guarantees (top 24 World Ranking/top 24 Seasons Best score list) as well. Given the shrinkage in the number of spots available, many fewer skaters and teams will get two events, so there is likely to be little suspense as to who will make the GPF.

    Oh, and the JGPF will be cut down to six finalists from 8.
    When I read your original take on this, I did do some figuring on how it will affect the non-seeded entrants. Unfortunately, in my old age, I may have not hit Reply.

    Anyhow, my figuring turned out that the only division hurt by the 3 events would be Pairs. I'm not sure if that's true. The others should be as they always were except maybe less slots for entrants.

    I agree the Pairs will knock out a possible Bronze medal as it did before. If there is a problem with my conclusion on the other divisions, it will knock out a possible a Bronze for each of those divisions also. It is not in the interest of the athletes, but it will assist the rental of the premises, if it brings in more paying customers to the event.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-man View Post
    Imaginary pogue: Great analysis in post #66. I have read it 5-6 times and am still learning things.
    Thanks. It's game theory which I enjoy.

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