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Thread: Who should USFS select for Skate America?

  1. #106
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    But is it Sport or Marketing that we are interested in?
    I do not see how you can go on and on about the sportliness of it all, yet base your strategy on protecting our athletes from having to face tough competition.

    Hiding in fear of one's competitors is not sport.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I do not see how you can go on and on about the sportliness of it all, yet base your strategy on protecting our athletes from having to face tough competition.

    Hiding in fear of one's competitors is not sport.
    Not to mention without decent marketing there is no sport, period.

    I would not want to risk further deteriortation of Skate America just to get Ashley or Jeremy into the GPF.

    Show me a benefit to US Skating and I will go along with the GP placement "strategy".

    Basically I agree with mathman and trying to avoid competition to make it to a final (that carries little importance) seems unsporting.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    This is how I look at it.

    What do successful sports organizations have to sell? NFL football offers a regular season of 512 games. Most are sold out and almost all are shown on television at least regionally. Then there are the playoffs culminating in the grand pooh-bah, the National Championship, aka the super bowl, which rakes in billions.

    Major League Baseball has a regular season of 4860 games , followed by playoffs and the misnamed “World” Series. Actually, it is the U.S. National Championship (sorry, Toronto Blue Jays. )

    Well, figure skating is not popular enough to hold four thousand moneymaking competitions per season. The USFSA has only two events to sell, Skate America and the National Championship. IMHO they should sell them like crazy.
    I don't think the marketing of figure skating and other individual sports should be compared to that of team sports like football, soccer, baseball, and hockey.

    People identify with and are emotionally invested in home teams, which represent them and their superiority. They are war substitutes. Instead of doing battles with destructive and lethal weapons, the combats are ritualized and regulated with rules, so people can have a physical and healthy outlet for aggression and competitiveness. Competing and winning vicariously is especially great for fans with few of the attributes of the players.

    Like other individual sports, which may include pairs, skating features excellence achieved by dedicated athletes. We celebrate and enjoy their talents and accomplishments as human beings. Even with national pride for our own, we can't help admiring the oppositions when they earn our respect and win our hearts over. Figure skating is a performance art as well, so beautiful to watch, making it much more marketable than track and field where the competition may be over within seconds it takes to run 100m, or to jump over a certain height or distance.

    Marketing figure skating competition is different and more complicated than skating as entertainment. As beautiful and "pageantry" as it is, it is also extremely technical, beyond the understanding and appreciation of most fans and general public. Fairness requires complex yet somewhat subjective judgement but perception of fairness must be clear and obvious for the satisfaction of the general audiences. There lies a challenge.

    Skate America should feature the best the United States has to offer against the strongest international stars that we can attract. What is the point of having a competition at all if you don’t bring your best?.

    Yes, there are also international competitions, like Worlds, etc. But these do not fall within the purview of the USFSA and its marketing team.

  4. #109
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    People identify with and are emotionally invested in home teams, which represent them and their superiority. They are war substitutes. Instead of doing battles with destructive and lethal weapons, the combats are ritualized and regulated with rules, so people can have a physical and healthy outlet for aggression and competitiveness. Competing and winning vicariously is especially great for fans with few of the attributes of the players.
    Figure skating can be like that! The only reason Japan and Korea are not at war is that we can go on the Internet and let off steam by throwing virtual spears at Yu-na Kim and Mao Asada. (Hey, is there an interactive video game like that out yet?)

    Oh, how furiously I bang the keyboard if someone dares to say something mean about Michelle Kwan! Grrr. What satisfaction!

    Like other individual sports, which may include pairs, skating features excellence achieved by dedicated athletes. We celebrate and enjoy their talents and accomplishments as human beings.
    Absolutely. Right after we crush them 266.39 to a paltry 259.40 in the arena, we can sit back and applaud the beauty of their spread eagle into a triple Lutz. (Actually, it was a flutz -- get out of town with that mess!)

  5. #110
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    Now that the genius Mathman has found a way to market figure skating like football, let's hope ISU listens and follows up with a plan to sell figure skating as a prime time sport it should be!

  6. #111
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Oh, how furiously I bang the keyboard if someone dares to say something mean about Michelle Kwan! Grrr. What satisfaction!
    don't tempt me!

  7. #112
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    I don't remember if it was here or on some other board that I read a very clever and somewhat proven plot to sell skating tickets in China. What needs to be done is to create a fan war, attendence wise. Put a challenge to the Chinese by bringing up how enthusiastic and supportive the Koreans or Japanese fans are and how high the attendence is at a certain comparable event, and vice versa, to get the nationalistic competitiveness going. "We will show them who can fill an arena fuller faster!"

    Wars are started for profits all the time. Why not exploit it for figure skating?

  8. #113
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I do not see how you can go on and on about the sportliness of it all, yet base your strategy on protecting our athletes from having to face tough competition.

    Hiding in fear of one's competitors is not sport.
    But what is it about Skate America and sport that you don't like about strategy? What you desire is to set the one competition with the Ladies to show on TV so you can enjoy it not so much as sport but as entertainment. The GP Series is one competition of many parts, yet you don't want to play the game. For whatever reason, you don't seem to care about the other host events. We will see all those skaters you want to see in other events, i.e., if they are shown somewhere. But even if they are not shown somewhere, the Finals will be, and getting to them is as tough as sports can be.

    there is no fear in hiding. We expect two top worlds medalists to be on board, and if you think a lucky 3rd or 4 place will get the US skater(s) into the Finals, think again. Czisny, yes. She placed 6th in Worlds. Why kill her chance of getting to the Finals with another skater like Mirai? But if Czisny is considered an automatic for Seeded placements, how will that affect the Host Country? and how are the Seeded placements placed in any event?

    Hernando - I am more into sport than marketing. I think that's a job for the ISU. If the cookie crubles, let it.

  9. #114
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    But what is it about Skate America and sport that you don't like about strategy?...The GP Series is one competition of many parts, yet you don't want to play the game. For whatever reason, you don't seem to care about the other host events.
    Well, this thread is about who the USFSA should pick for Skate America.

    I have no objection to discussing who the Japanese federation should pick for NHK, etc. Fire away!

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Caroline Zhang is not eligible for the GP because her score is below the minimum, based on 66.6% of the top Seasons Best score. So she can't get any event except a SA host pick. But considering that she was 12th at US Nationals and had 7th and 9th place finishes at the GP last season, I can see no reason why the US should give her one of the host picks spots.

    The host spots will be extremely valuable this year, given the smaller fields. One can not assume that those outside the top 12 at Worlds will get two GP invitations. With a possibility of half of the roster going to the top 12 at Worlds, the host picks (especially for singles) should go to those who have the best shot at making the GPF.

    Czisny and Flatt are already assured of getting two assignments each, since Czisny is seeded and Flatt finished top 12. Nagasu should get two invitations because of her GP and 4CC medals and her high positions on both ISU ranking (#12) and SBU (#4) lists. The US should pick Czisny as a seed and two other ladies who are not assured of two spots. I'd suggest Gao and Zawadzki as two promising ladies for the future.
    Caroline's SB score is number 51 on the SB list which is within the top 75 so I think she is still eligible for GP assignments right? I doubt she'll be getting 2 assignments but I think she could maybe get 1.

  11. #116
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    Oh wait nevermind now it's top 50 is the cutoff so SA is Caroline's only shot, it's a shame as she missed eligibility by one slot...

  12. #117
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    The minimum score per discipline is 66.6% of the highest score on the Seasons Best list. For ladies, that is 134.3.

    Some too-low scores:
    133.86 Caroline Zhang
    133.65 Cheltzie Lee (AUS)
    132.15 Jenna McCorkell (GBR)
    131.20 Elena Glebova (EST)
    125.64 Alexe Gilles

  13. #118
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    OK. It's a fun thread, and I shouldn't post anything serious whether it's wrong or right. Enjoy your selections.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    The minimum score per discipline is 66.6% of the highest score on the Seasons Best list. For ladies, that is 134.3.

    Some too-low scores:
    133.86 Caroline Zhang
    133.65 Cheltzie Lee (AUS)
    132.15 Jenna McCorkell (GBR)
    131.20 Elena Glebova (EST)
    125.64 Alexe Gilles
    Wow, so none of those skaters are eligible for the GP? That is a big change. I guess that gives skaters like Bingwa Geng, Min-Jeong Kwak, and Juulia Tuurkilla better chances of getting an assignment as their SB score of the season is above the cutoff.

  15. #120
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    Being eligible doesn't necessarily mean a skater is likely to get invitations. With only 10 singles skaters and half of the 10 from the top 12 at Worlds, there aren't a lot of available slots. It helps to be high on the World Ranking list and in the top 30 or so of the Seasons best list. It also helps to be from a host nation, or to be among the top skaters from a federation.

    Geng will get a host pick and maybe one other. Kwak is the #2 Korean skater and should get at least one invitation.

    But Juulia Turkkila isn't Finnish #1 or #2 (Lepisto, Korpi); she is #88 on the World Ranking list and #44 on the Seasons Best list. Last year, her best finish was 10th in a JGP event. Technically, she is eligible, but there are other far more accomplished skaters higher on both lists who don't have much chance to get invitations. Juulia is only 16 and another year on the JGP could help her chances for next year.

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