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Thread: Changes to Grand Prix structure for 2011-2012

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Changes to Grand Prix structure for 2011-2012

    This has come up incidentally in a couple of threads, bit I think it is interesting enough to warrant its own discussion. According to the latest ISU Communication (#1671),

    1. "Under certain conditions" (unspecified so far), seeded skaters will be allowed to compete in up to three events. And

    2. In the Junior Grand Prix, only six singles skaters in each discipliune will make the final, instead of eight.

    Quote Originally Posted by ISU Communication 1671)
    9. ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating and ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating. For the ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating (senior) the Council decided to give the possibility to
    seeded Skaters to skate 3 Grand Prix events per season under certain conditions that will be published in the Announcement for the ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating.

    For the ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final the Council decided upon a reduction of entries for the Junior Ladies and Men into the Final from 8 down to 6 entries. Since the Council took the same decision during its previous meeting (see ISU Communication 1655) for the Pair Skating and Ice Dance disciplines, it means that for all disciplines there will be 6 entries only nto the ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final.
    http://www5.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/p...v-list,00.html
    Last edited by Mathman; 05-04-2011 at 06:09 AM.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Thanks MM. I'm keenly interested in the GP series and will continue to look at GS for further information while I am hibernating (real soon)

    What is the point of 3 skates before the Final? and is this competition now being run for Seeded Skaters only? Since Hanyu is not a seeded skater, and will only have two events, he will not make the final, if the seeded skaters have more placement credits. No? That's just an example of many excellent skaters who are not seeded. BTW, what constitutes a seeded skater?

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    ^supposed to look like a blade! C_T_T_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Thanks MM. I'm keenly interested in the GP series and will continue to look at GS for further information while I am hibernating (real soon)

    What is the point of 3 skates before the Final? and is this competition now being run for Seeded Skaters only? Since Hanyu is not a seeded skater, and will only have two events, he will not make the final, if the seeded skaters have more placement credits. No? That's just an example of many excellent skaters who are not seeded. BTW, what constitutes a seeded skater?
    Seeded skaters are the top 6 finishers at worlds and even if they choose to do 3 events they will only earn points from 2 events.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    The last time they allowed three events the way it worked was that the skaters had to designate at the beginning of the year which two events would be their "scoring events." Then the other one, they couldn't win any points towards the finals, but they could knock other contenders out by beating them.

    I don't know why the ISU is considering this again, but I can think of two possible reasons.

    1. Maybe they want the individual Grand Prix events to be more competitive and more exciting. For instance, Virtue and Moir and Davis and White are prohibitive favorites against anyone else except each other. Why not let them compete against each other in, say, Eric Bompard ? That way we could have a real contest rather than a coronation of whichever team is happens to be there, absent the other.

    2. This gives the top skaters a chance to earn more money. This might be an incentive for someone who is thinking about skipping the series altogether. It will also make up in part for discontinuing the bonus money at the end ofthe year. This way, the ISU can channel more money to the top performers, without any net effect on the ISU's bottom line.

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    V&M and D&W still may not meet. They could each end up doing three separate events, winning all six grand prix events between them.

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    I think Mathman nailed it. Make one event more exciting by having more top competitors.

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    I feel that the change is made for marketing and financial purposes since the seeded skaters are the big draws. However, without increasing the number of events, the increased participation by the seeded skaters will be at the expense of the lower ranked skaters as there will be fewer entries available to them.

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    Not only that, there's a rumour going around that the number of singles entrants will be dropped to 10 (from 12) and in dance to 8 (from 10).

    It's really quite mindboggling how thoroughly the ISU intends to disrespect the smaller federations (the ones largely impacted by this).

    I expect we'll see a spike in those participating in Nebelhorn/Finlandia/Mt Blanc etc, though.

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    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
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    I don't like the return to the old system. In the beginning of the old system, skaters would attend all three events, even their non-scoring. Towards the end (before the shift in 2003?), once skaters qualified, they would drop out of their final event. This would make the first three or four events fully-attended, and then the last two or three events devoid of any stars. I remember the 2001 NHK ladies' competition lost Michelle Kwan and Irina Slutskaya, since both had qualified ahead of time. The winner that year of NHK was Tatiana Malinina, which allowed her to qualify. 4th place finisher Angela Nikodinov, needing Yoshie Onda (2nd) to finish 3rd or lower did not get it. Most likely, Angela wouldn't have finished on the podium in that event, but having Irina or Michelle would've given Yoshie a lower finish. Of course, had Yoshie not made the final, the Olympic team that year could've been Fumie and Shizuka...
    Last edited by blue dog; 05-04-2011 at 10:55 AM.

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    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Not only that, there's a rumour going around that the number of singles entrants will be dropped to 10 (from 12) and in dance to 8 (from 10).

    It's really quite mindboggling how thoroughly the ISU intends to disrespect the smaller federations (the ones largely impacted by this).

    I expect we'll see a spike in those participating in Nebelhorn/Finlandia/Mt Blanc etc, though.
    Then again if this is supposed to be a sport do we need to see Chan beating a much lower ranked skater by 100 points?
    Maybe as mathman suggested a few better matchups will result which could make the GP more exciting.

    Remember TEB preceeding the Olympics? The Ladies field was loaded and was highly anticpated.

    Why not a chance to see a few of the top skaters/teams competing before the GPF or Worlds?

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    No, but those lower-ranked skaters still need a chance to show their stuff. It's not the six-nations champions, after all.

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    ok, correct me if I'm wrong. If they approve all those changes, for singles it'd be: 3 entries for the top 6, 2 entries for the 7th-12th = 30 entries
    Only with the Worlds top 12 it'd be a half of the GP spots if they cut it down to 10. And we have to add the Junior GPF medalists and Junior Worlds medalists

    I don't like it, It's very interesting seeing the newcomers skating in the GP. (And from a totally selfish point of view, we'd see less skating and I bet the GP tickets will cost the same)

  13. #13
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_T_T_ View Post
    Seeded skaters are the top 6 finishers at worlds and even if they choose to do 3 events they will only earn points from 2 events.
    which is what the GP did up until, what, the Code of Points were introduced. Sounds good to me.

    I'll bet this is so skaters can still skate in their home country's event and then go off and win a couple more with points... I assume it will work like in the past where they announce before they begin the season as to which two will be their scoring event and which will be their non-scoring.

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    I am reposting this from the Skate America thread:

    There are going to be some big changes to the GP events this year.

    For one thing, the number of dance teams in each event is reduced to 8 (from 10), and singles to 10 (from 12). Pairs remains at 8.

    There is a new minimum score per discipline, based on 2/3s of the the top Seasons Best total score.
    For men, that is roughly 187, which would make only the top 45 men on the SB list eligible for the GP.
    For ladies, 134 - top 50 on the SB list eligible
    For pairs, 145 - top 23 on the SB list eligible, but Marley/Brubaker (at 24) are not eligible
    For dance, 123 - top 35 on the SB list eligible

    Seeds will have the option of doing 3 events, but I believe the intention is to fill vacancies (this was done in previous seasons, but only for Pairs).

    Other substitutions will be assigned by the ISU, not the host, and directly from the top score list, in order.

    Skaters will have the opportunity to up their top scores prior to the GP by competing in Senior B competitions such as Nebelhorn. You can bet that Nebelhorn will have huge rosters, as it is one of the few "B"s that take place before the start of the GP.

    Skaters like Marley/Brubaker who don't meet the minimum score cannot get any initial GP assignments. If they do an international and raise their scores, they will be placed on the substitute list and will have to wait for withdrawals. However, there may be skaters with higher scores but only one assignment ahead of them on the list, so even making the minimum score won't guarantee that they will get to compete in the GP.

    There may be more changes as well. I don't know when the ISU is having the GP meeting this year. It is usually mid-June, but with the extended season, the meeting may be delayed.

  15. #15
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    This is downsizing and it is being done for several reasons.

    It is not being done due to the great worldwide popularity/profitabilty of figure skating.

    For years USA used to pay half of ISU's operating budget. Maybe Putin will pick up the slack. If not the downsizing will continue as Obama does not appear to give a hoot about skating.

    Perhaps a few,,,,um, actually quite a few adjustmenst to the CoP will someday bring back the American fans and with it the TV money no other country has ever come close to matching.

    GP's in China are great but judging from what I have seen they don't make money and are subsidized by the govt.

    Maybe skating in USA needs another Harding to get the interest back up. Better than that would be another Michelle Kwan.

    Let's go Mirai, we are counting on you to be the one.

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