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Thread: Changes to Grand Prix structure for 2011-2012

  1. #16
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_T_T_ View Post
    Seeded skaters are the top 6 finishers at worlds and even if they choose to do 3 events they will only earn points from 2 events.
    Yes, but will they deprive a non seeded skater a medal? and equally important it will push the nonseeded skater back in the standings for making the Final.
    A few years ago, a US Pairs Team (who happened to execute the first quadruple throw) was pushed back to 4th place because P&T in their third GP and won it pushing the US team off the podium. The US Pairs team may not have made the final, but it sure did lose out on a bronze medal. It not only affects the Final, it also affects the competition results. Fair?

    The reason to return to this oddity imo, is the belief that there are STARS in the skating world to attract live paying customers to offset the rent of the arena. I'm not sure that's reason enough. It's all about money - not the competition. It does not give all contestants extra money, only the seeded skaters. Many top skaters have plenty of money or they would have dropped out sooner. it's not about streets sports kids who can not afford to go to the local ice rink.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    I think Mathman nailed it. Make one event more exciting by having more top competitors.
    If MM nailed it, then his Fairness approach to US Nationals should be reconsidered too. Who are the more top competitors and how do they get that way outside of favorites on this forum? I read it as anything to make my armchair more comfortable while watching it on TV.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    If MM nailed it, then his Fairness approach to US Nationals should be reconsidered too. Who are the more top competitors and how do they get that way outside of favorites on this forum? I read it as anything to make my armchair more comfortable while watching it on TV.


    I am about to go shopping and think it is about time for a new armchair.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
    This is downsizing and it is being done for several reasons.....For years USA used to pay half of ISU's operating budget. Maybe Putin will pick up the slack. If not the downsizing will continue as Obama does not appear to give a hoot about skating.

    Perhaps a few,,,,um, actually quite a few adjustmenst to the CoP will someday bring back the American fans and with it the TV money no other country has ever come close to matching.

    GP's in China are great but judging from what I have seen they don't make money and are subsidized by the govt.
    Thanks for the financial point of view, Hernando.

    Thanks also to Mathman for the heads up on the rules changes. I have not had the Moxie to read ISU #1671, so I very much appreciate your pulling out this important nugget for us.

    Hernando, I think Putin might be willing to pick up some of the expenses. So much has changed in the world, financially, and we saw how the stands were loaded with fans in the recent Moscow Worlds. With just a few weeks to prepare, Russia ran one heck of a good show.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    I am reposting this from the Skate America thread:

    There are going to be some big changes to the GP events this year.

    For one thing, the number of dance teams in each event is reduced to 8 (from 10), and singles to 10 (from 12). Pairs remains at 8.

    There is a new minimum score per discipline, based on 2/3s of the the top Seasons Best total score.
    For men, that is roughly 187, which would make only the top 45 men on the SB list eligible for the GP.
    For ladies, 134 - top 50 on the SB list eligible
    For pairs, 145 - top 23 on the SB list eligible, but Marley/Brubaker (at 24) are not eligible
    For dance, 123 - top 35 on the SB list eligible

    Seeds will have the option of doing 3 events, but I believe the intention is to fill vacancies (this was done in previous seasons, but only for Pairs).

    Other substitutions will be assigned by the ISU, not the host, and directly from the top score list, in order.

    Skaters will have the opportunity to up their top scores prior to the GP by competing in Senior B competitions such as Nebelhorn. You can bet that Nebelhorn will have huge rosters, as it is one of the few "B"s that take place before the start of the GP.

    Skaters like Marley/Brubaker who don't meet the minimum score cannot get any initial GP assignments. If they do an international and raise their scores, they will be placed on the substitute list and will have to wait for withdrawals. However, there may be skaters with higher scores but only one assignment ahead of them on the list, so even making the minimum score won't guarantee that they will get to compete in the GP.

    There may be more changes as well. I don't know when the ISU is having the GP meeting this year. It is usually mid-June, but with the extended season, the meeting may be delayed.
    Thank you Chuckum for this further information.

    Given the reduction in number of Mens and Ladies to 60 slots each, and Dance to 48 and remaining 48 for Pairs, and Given the most likely figure for filling slots based on the SB scores and then using an arbitrary percentage to arrive at: (Plese check my Arithmetic)
    45 Slots for Men - l5 slots remaining to be filled.
    50 Slots for Ladies - 10 slots remaining to be filled.
    23 Slots for Pairs - 25 slots remaining to be filled.
    35 Slots for Dance - 13 slots remaining to be filled.
    If we take the number of empties for Men as an example, we still have to consider those in the 1/3rd dropped in the original calculations, some of which will not be from BigSix, it would seem that the Men are ready to go. no need for adding a Top skater as there are not empty slots. Similarly with Ladies, Pairs and Dance.
    I don't see any real change other than the downsizing of the entrants. It does cut out some slots for some small Feds. I don't see the need for the Top Seeds to fill empty slots, except possibly for pairs. So P&T, S&Z. and a couple of Russian Pairs will knock out 4 medal hopefuls from the lower ranks. Fair?

    From what you wrote, it seems Marley/Brubaker are totally out of this. They will have one international at SA, and if they win in Finlandia that could give them more ratings.

    Of course, the May meeting hasn't begun yet and there should be more items on the table.

  6. #21
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    Are the new rules going to REQUIRE the seeded skaters to participate in a third GP, or is it up to each skater's/team's discretion? If this is an ISU moneymaking strategy, will they put pressure on Federations to force their top seeded skaters to do a third event, even if the skater(s) don't wish to?

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    Right now, no - the rules won't force a skater to do a third GP event (from my understanding). The pressure? Will definitely be there

  8. #23
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    The more I think of it the more I believe this is a truly destructive change.

  9. #24
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    I didn't like this the first time around and I don't know how it will be better now.

    Of course I wasn't privy to all their thinking ...but it seems to me that they soon decided that audiences were getting bored with seeing the same programs over and over..and then the skaters had to skate two different long programs at the final..


  10. #25
    When Grand Prix events used to be broadcast on tv (ABC/ESPN) I always assumed the reason that top skaters were allowed to do 3 GPs was to increase viewership. Now that the networks no longer broadcast, I guess the same motives apply, but now they'll hope that these top skaters will put "butts in seats" at the actual venues rather than garnering more of a TV audience.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    The more I think of it the more I believe this is a truly destructive change.
    The more I think of it I see the lack of intere$t from USA as the primary cause of this latest down$izing.

    In the future we might expect to see the techpanel reduced from 3 to 2 and the judging panel chopped again.

    Apparently the CoP is NOT the world wide success you so often claim it to be.

    As a longtime fan I can tell you anonymous judging will never be acceptable to most Americans.

    On the other hand, with skating as political under CoP as it was in the past do we need to know which judges marked Alissa high and which one's marked her low at Worlds?

    Seems that might have caused a little controversy. From where I sit controversy is preferable to a lack of interest.

    But first, people have to actually be watching it on TV. No need for anyone to mock armchair fans. The TV money is what made the sport's growth possible in the first place.

    Thinking of Plushy's comments from Vancouver, "they needed it more" he couldn;t have been more WRONG.

    USA casual fans who watch skating on TV did not care too much whether Evan won or not.
    In USA figure skating begins and ends with the "Ice Princess."

    It is about time for ISU to realize this and start scoring our girls higher at Worlds and the Olympics.

    What a sport

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
    USA casual fans who watch skating on TV did not care too much whether Evan won or not.
    In USA figure skating begins and ends with the "Ice Princess."

    It is about time for ISU to realize this and start scoring our girls higher at Worlds and the Olympics.

    What a sport
    You mean that was what they did in Vancouver for Evan, but Americans care about girls more so it didn't work?
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 05-06-2011 at 08:42 AM.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    You mean that was what they did in Vancouver for Evan, but Americans care about girls more so it didn't work?
    I am just a fan so how can I know what ISU was thinking in Vancouver?

    But yes, USA won't come back or even show a rise in interest without an Ice Princess.

    Maybe Adelina could switch nationalities and come skate for USA. She seems to have everything USA fans like in a Lady skater ( but she would have to lose the Russian accent ).
    Last edited by janetfan; 05-06-2011 at 08:54 AM.

  14. #29
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    It's difficult to understand the rationalization of the ISU decisions more often than not. Among the average Fans, they are open for conspiracy theories where an explanation on - WHY - would not be inappropriate.

    Is it that the revenues of the ISU are dwindling? and cut backs are necessary? We don't know the Budget of the ISU, and for the most part, we don't care, but a little info on cutting back would be of interest and understanding of the actions.

    Are the individual events, if not showing a profit, showing a loss? I'm not sure that cutting down on events is the way to go in a dying sport. Baseball Teams are replaced when it shows that paying fans lose interest in a team, but they are picked up in other venues. Where does Figure Skating go, if all is loss?

    How many of the BigSix are losing money by hosting a GP event? Given the huge logistics to host a GP, maybe another country nonBigSix could do it?

  15. #30
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    Quirk for pairs

    There are 23 skaters on the SB that qualify. Of those, three teams have split/retired (Denney/Barrett, Y/C and Brodeur/Mattatall). So only 20 teams are eligible for 48 slots. So everyone in the twenty should get two spots. And then there are eight spots left. Assuming the top six does a third competition, you still have two empty slots.

    The hosts should definitely consider reserving a slot for a team not eligible via season's best. Maybe even two slots.

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