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Thread: Crone & Poirier: Some Thoughts/Suggestions on Their New Packaging

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    Crone & Poirier: Some Thoughts/Suggestions on Their New Packaging


    I have a feeling that I'll get a lot of criticizms, but now that the 2010-11 season is finally over, I figured that this might be a good time to consider the whole notion of re-packaging C/P team. Note that I dedicated majority of my thoughts on Vanessa but also puts Paul's name on the title. I just did not want people to think that I am singling Vanessa out. That's not my intention, nor do I mean to disrespect her.

    The goal for me is to define their style based, of course, on what they already have - We cannot build something out of nothing. This is especially pertinent now. Though they are technically accomplished team, they still are young, and need to develop their own style.

    That said, I would like to see Vanessa packages herself creating "memorable," or "unforgettable" look. By memorable, I mean a striking looks like Marina Anissina and/or Angelika Krylova. Unique to her contemporaries, Vanessa has a very strong facial feature just like Marina: http://static.actustar.com/img/stars/150/4633.jpg.

    Though Vanessa is a beautiful woman, her feature is not of a classical beauty. For her team to stand out among clouded and strong Canadian ice dance field, she doesn't want to do "luvy dubby" (V/M) or pretty and/or cutsy (W/P, P/I, etc.) Her country already have plenty of those, as are her international competitions.

    Rather, she can really pull-off unique and memorable. Here are some examples. Be warned. I am wildly exaggerating to make my point:
    http://online.wsj.com/media/cruella_...0502101003.jpg
    http://cdn.buzznet.com/assets/imgx/1...g-13977611.jpg
    Don't laugh. Yes, it's Glenn Close' Cruella DeVille. She may not be pretty, but she sure is memorable. Can you honestly remember the names of the nice couple who adopted all those Dalmatians? For that matter, do you even remember what those couple looked like? But you remember Cruella. That's my point.

    Here are some other examples - all these looks are best suited for strong featured person like Vanessa (just to help you, try imagining Maia Shibutani also emulating the same characters):

    http://www.disneylicious.com/i_01/en...lpaper_001.jpg
    http://justjared.buzznet.com/images/...-enchanted.jpg
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-va_9hNcjCF...dy-macbeth.jpg
    http://celebrating-humanity.wikispac...y-Macbeth-.jpg
    http://www.shockya.com/news/wp-conte...er-535x793.jpg
    http://tancietrail.com/wp-content/up...ack-swan-1.jpg

    The first two are the "evil step mother" in Enchanted played by Susan Sarandon; the 3rd and the 4th are my favorite, Shakespeare's Lady McBeth; and I don't have to tell you what the last two pictures are.

    Finally here are the last two pictures with Paul and Vanessa's photo tacked at the end. Notice how little effort it may take for Vanessa to pull off this particular character:

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_JwU4ZIhIBN...cia_addams.jpg
    http://beigebanquet.files.wordpress..../morticia1.jpg
    http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3605/...beb4599cf8.jpg

    Of course Vanessa is prettier, but you sure remember Angelika Heston's unique feature. The point is not to dance those characters but to take up what is common among them, that is, to create striking features that her audiences are unlikely to forget.

    To pull the "unforgettable" I would like Vanessa to exaggerate her feature rather than soften it. For instance, I would like her to thicken/darken her eyebrows to further emphasizes her already striking eyes, just like her:
    http://www.barbarapijan.com/bpa/Heal...gway_photo.jpg
    http://www.peoples.ru/art/cinema/act...emingway_1.jpg
    (Margaux Hemingway, a grand-daughter of the writer, Earnest Hemingway)

    Make-up that emphasizes her sharp cheek bones and red hair like Marina may further strengthen her feature:
    http://static1.purepeople.com/articl...na-637x0-1.jpg

    Strong feature/characters call for a strong presence. I apologize in advance if Vanessa is one of those rare and lucky women who have difficulty gaining weight. If not, gaining approximately 5 pounds or so may help her costume fits better as well as enhancing her presence on ice. Jewell toned color costume probably shows off her complexion the best, just like the SD costume she wore at the Canadian Nationals.

    Finally, here is the lady who does "memoralbe/unforgettable" the best IMO:
    http://www.leahadams.com/photo/worlds/99wak.jpg
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSyT-...eature=related

    Though Krylova is gorgeous, she does not go for "pretty." To me, her movements and facial expressions scream "unique" and "stunning." And I would love to see C/P coached by someone who knows how to package the "striking."
    Last edited by CARA; 05-04-2011 at 04:25 AM.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    One of the problems with packaging Vanessa as Cruella deVille (or some other well known villainess) is that Paul has such a very young and guileless look.

    In fact, IMO, repackaging Paul to look older and less clean-cut might be the most helpful thing in the makeup and costuming line that could be done for C&P's overall look. He should be old enough these days to grow some facial hair, for example - a real moustache, or a goatee or a soul patch. Even sideburns (and do 70's disco) perhaps. And something in the makeup department to soften the shiny look of that gorgeous young skin. Perhaps grow his hair longer so its his hair you look at.

    I can certainly see Krylova doing a great job with this team. Do they get along well enough with W&P to be training mates?
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 05-04-2011 at 04:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    One of the problems with packaging Vanessa as Cruella deVille (or some other well known villainess) is that Paul has such a very young and guileless look.

    In fact, IMO, repackaging Paul to look older and less clean-cut might be the most helpful thing in the makeup and costuming line that could be done for C&P's overall look. He should be old enough these days to grow some facial hair, for example - a real moustache, or a goatee or a soul patch. Even sideburns (and do 70's disco) perhaps. And something in the makeup department to soften the shiny look of that gorgeous young skin. Perhaps grow his hair longer so its his hair you look at.

    I can certainly see Krylova doing a great job with this team. Do they get along well enough with W&P to be training mates?
    I couldn't sleep tonight, and I am sure glad that you replied. After I finished writing the above thread, I started thinking about just how Paul could be helped to look more mature. To getting away from the boyish and curly natural hair was the first order - sling back hair like Scott, and/ or pony tailed hair with a leather band. maybe. Who knows, maybe Paul can borrow a leather string from Camerlengo

    I am not aware just how C/P and W/P get along. I hope they do, for training with your arch-rival could be the best thing for each team (and P/B are also joining the group soon.) I would be looking forward to hearing what the canadian posters have to say.

    I also think that Paul seriously study partners of strong/striking female dancers: Oleg Ovsyannikov &
    Gwendal Peizerat (Krylova & Anissina's partners) and Maxim Staviski, a partner of another strong charactered dancer, Denkova. It might be particularly helpful in that all three male partners does not come across "macho," but they each find the way to make the partnership work, IMHO.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 05-04-2011 at 04:33 PM.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Yes, you could definitely have Paul haul back his hair in a ponytail with a lot of gel on it to make him look older. Especially with a bit of artificial tan to tone his 'shine' down.

    Even Jason Brown at 16 looks older with that kind of 'do.

    It might be fun to have them skate to Peer Gynt. Or Samson & Delilah (I always picture her as the Older Woman, whether she was or not). Or for that matter, Mussorgsky's Pictures in an Exhibition ( perhaps the Baba Yaga's Hut and Kiev Wall)
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 05-04-2011 at 09:59 AM.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    I think she looks fine as she is.

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    I think what they need is to work on their basics. One only has to see the results the Shibs have had this season to see that looking young or not "pretty enough" in the classical style does not keep you from reaching the top of the sport. But great edges, good speed and power does help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think she looks fine as she is.
    I agree. There's nothing wrong with her looks. I am just entertaining ideas to enhance what's already fine, so she stands out even better.

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    They remind me of a very young Anissina/Peizerat, when Gwendal was fresh-faced, and Marina looked more mature. What their team did was make Gwendal look older. The same could work for Paul, as Doris had suggested.

    Another thing that could improve them would probably be if they left their coaching team outright. The Lanes are turning into what McLeod has become for singles skating in British Columbia. Of course, where would they go? The only coaches that seem to have openings are Linichuk, Dubova, and Boucher-Zazoui, as all the other coaches already have top teams.

    Quote Originally Posted by CARA View Post

    Though Krylova is gorgeous, she does not go for "pretty." To me, her movements and facial expressions scream "unique" and "stunning." And I would love to see C/P coached by someone who knows how to package the "striking."
    If they leave the Lanes, it won't be for Krylova, since she is already coaching Weaver/Poje on a more-than-part-time basis. It's kind of cool, seeing Krylova and Bourne coach W/P side-by-side, when the two had been fierce competition for one another in the 90's.
    Last edited by blue dog; 05-04-2011 at 10:47 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KKonas View Post
    I think what they need is to work on their basics. One only has to see the results the Shibs have had this season to see that looking young or not "pretty enough" in the classical style does not keep you from reaching the top of the sport. But great edges, good speed and power does help.
    If I remember correctly, you mentioned the C/P needing more power stroking practices at the Ice skating- FD threads.

    I am focusing on the packaging because I'm a non-skater who is unable to comment on technical aspects of skating. I'll leave that part to those who are knowledgeable like you, so that I can also learn. On the other hand, packaging (or lack thereof) is something many posters commented on, and that's something perhaps I have something to say. Women notice, you know.

    While better/unique packaging may not compensate for the deficiency in basic skills, it can enhance programms they skate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue dog View Post
    They remind me of a very young Anissina/Peizerat, when Gwendal was fresh-faced, and Marina looked more mature. What their team did was make Gwendal look older. The same could work for Paul, as Doris had suggested.
    Wow! That's interesting. I didn't know that.

    Regarding coaching, S/Z's camp has multiple top skaters and find the way to practice collegially. I suspect that constant rivalry is one of the reasons the Canton group is so succesful. Granted if C/P are willing to move, I personally think Krylova would do wonderful job maximizing their unique attributes. But that's my opinion.

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    I don't think they'll move, though. They've been with the Lanes since forever (when they started) and seem to be happy there. I do hope this season as served them a wake-up call, but who knows.

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    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CARA View Post
    Wow! That's interesting. I didn't know that.

    Regarding coaching, S/Z's camp has multiple top skaters and find the way to practice collegially. I suspect that constant rivalry is one of the reasons the Canton group is so succesful. Granted if C/P are willing to move, I personally think Krylova would do wonderful job maximizing their unique attributes. But that's my opinion.
    This was Anissina/Peizerat at the beginning of their career together:
    http://c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0...erat-FRA-2.jpg

    After he started to look "his age" (he was older than her by three years)
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/oly...erat_ap-01.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue dog View Post
    This was Anissina/Peizerat at the beginning of their career together:
    http://c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0...erat-FRA-2.jpg

    After he started to look "his age" (he was older than her by three years)
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/oly...erat_ap-01.jpg
    Thanks, blue dog. The difference in those two pictures are stunning! It's so helpful to see.
    Love, love, love the second pix!
    Last edited by CARA; 05-04-2011 at 11:18 AM.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    While I always preferred W/P over Crone and Poririer, I still admired C/P dancing. I don't understand the need to repackage. I would suggest they check out the protocols and work on any that showed faults.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    While I always preferred W/P over Crone and Poririer, I still admired C/P dancing. I don't understand the need to repackage. I would suggest they check out the protocols and work on any that showed faults.
    At the risk of being accused of a sexist, maybe it's an woman thing. I've noticed more than several women commented on C/P's packaging.

    And yes, I, too, admire C/P's skating.

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