Which seeded skaters will do three GP events? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Which seeded skaters will do three GP events?

BackStage Barbie

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 22, 2010
I know we've focused on men and ladies, but I think the dancers will be interesting to look at as well. I can see V/M and D/W only doing two events because they are at the level where they don't need competition experience and/or the ego boost of winning a GP medal. I think the Shibutanis will definitely do three because they are young and energetic and would like to see improvement on their events from last season. I think Bobrova/Soloviev & Weaver/Poje will also do three to help improve world rankings and get feedback on their programs moving towards the GPF and Europeans, 4CC & Worlds. Pechalat & Bourzat have been around long enough that they don't need the experience, but perhaps after a coaching change they'll want some more exposure with their new programs and style.

Depending on what events their teams are invited to, I could also see Zoueva & Shpilband deliberately having V/M and D/W not do a third event if it will help one of their other teams place higher and qualify for the Final, i.e. the Shibutanis, Chock & Zuerlein, and Samuelson & Bates.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
I'm still at a loss for the reasons the ISU is downsizing the number of the GP participants I would appreciate it if anyone is in the know.

another important question: What reasons are given to using Seeded Skaters?

It seems to me, that if the number of participants are being downsized, what would make the GP slots empty? I'm aware that fans are not interested in questioning authority, and I would be the same, but a blunt change is not to my liking without an explanation. Speculation is not the way to go.

Instead of naming the seeded skaters for a third GP, I would suggest to replacing the GP Series with a Series for Seeded Skaters only. This would work for the ISU for whatever reason, and for the Fans whose interests do not go beyond the seeded skaters.

It's sad for me to see this Sport in its entirety to be shown on computer only.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
It's sad for me to see this Sport in its entirety to be shown on computer only.

I think the ISU is trying to prevent this with star power, thus the increased spots for seeds while reducing over all entries for cost reduction.

Given the current situation, with ISU cash crunch and concentration of skating stars and popularity in certain regions, what do you suggest they do as realistic measures? Let's hear your solutions instead of just criticisms, which are definitely not in short supply, contrary to your assertion. Please leave out the kill CoP option because that we have heard from you in every post but, really, TV fans don't care. Especially the non American ones.

Personally, I think their focus should be on two major markets, one to develop, namely China, and one to revitalize, namely the U.S., which is also the major concern with most GS members.

If you feel there is much to say about your solutions, a new thread may be interesting.

eta. Sorry but I think there is already a thread for this, the Changes to GP Structure.
 
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ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009

Just my perception. It also depends on the federation as well. I can't imagine SC wanting them, whereas TEB and CoR definitely do. Even though they're young, too much traveling and competing does take it's toll (see Denis Ten). The judges already like them - but giving the competition more opportunity to dismiss you as a fluke isn't a good thing. If they're that eager to get out their programs early, go to Nebelhorn (or better, Finlandia)
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
I think the ISU is trying to prevent this with star power, thus the increased spots for seeds while reducing over all entries for cost reduction.
I'm afraid the star power is limited to the Fans on skating blogs. San Francisco is a lovely city to visit, but how many would want to go to see a skating competition?

Given the current situation, with ISU cash crunch and concentration of skating stars and popularity in certain regions, what do you suggest they do as realistic measures?
As I said on another thread, Replace the GP Series with a Pre-Worlds Series of Seeded Skaters. This may improve the financial situation with the ISU.

Personally, I think their focus should be on two major markets, one to develop, namely China, and one to revitalize, namely the U.S., which is also the major concern with most GS members.
If and only if, China needs assistance in getting more interest in figure skating, then drop it. As for the US, the reasons for most fans (other than blogs) losing interest in figure skating were given elsewhere on this Forum.

If you feel there is much to say about your solutions, a new thread may be interesting.
I doubt that a thread on suggested solutions would be much of interest to fans who are not interested (except for some) in the workings of the Sport. Most prefer to discuss what they are interested in, and questioning the rules and regulations of the ISU is very limited to a few.

I was brought up to question authority - not just to accept it. Yes, I was one of those rebellious kids in college quite awhile ago.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
I was brought up to question authority - not just to accept it. Yes, I was one of those rebellious kids in college quite awhile ago.

That is obvious. So much so you need to create or exaggerate the compliant to support your cherished self image and status.

Being brought up to do so and needing to do so as a raison d'etre actually means you are moulded and are conforming.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Just my perception. It also depends on the federation as well. I can't imagine SC wanting them, whereas TEB and CoR definitely do. Even though they're young, too much traveling and competing does take it's toll (see Denis Ten). The judges already like them - but giving the competition more opportunity to dismiss you as a fluke isn't a good thing. If they're that eager to get out their programs early, go to Nebelhorn (or better, Finlandia)

And you can't imagine NHK might want the Shibs? :eek: :sheesh:
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
That's one. So if they do three, they won't do SC, which two others do you think they'll do?

I don't care if they do two or three. They have a coaching team and federation who will make that decision.

I would like the Shibs at Skate America because the crowd will like them which would be good for SA.
I don't think it matters if D/W are there and beat them.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I can't imagine SC wanting them [the Shibutanis], whereas TEB and CoR definitely do.

This whole procedure shows in miniature what is wrong with the sport of figure skating in general.

France wants the Shibutanis because then the home-court advantage will place Pechalat and Bourzat in first place, putting P&B in the finals and knocking the Shibs out. They don't want Davis and White or Virtue and Moir because then no amount of cheating will help P&B.

Russia wants the Shibutanis for the same reason. With a little home cooking both Bobrova and Soloviev and Ilinykh and Katsalapov will finish ahead of the Shibs, but against D&W or V&M, no dice.

NHK doesn't care, Japan having no dog in the ice-dancing race. However, they can make a deal with USA to take the Shibs in exchance for Skate America taking Marakami, or Oda, or Hanyu. There is even speculation that "older brothers" Scott Moir and Charlie Davis will deliberately decline NHK to give their their "little brother" Alex a treat and to protect him from having to venture into hostile territory in France and Russia.

Is this sport?
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
This whole procedure shows in miniature what is wrong with the sport of figure skating in general.

France wants the Shibutanis because then the home-court advantage will place Pechalat and Bourzat in first place, putting P&B in the finals and knocking the Shibs out. They don't want Davis and White or Virtue and Moir because then no amount of cheating will help P&B.

Russia wants the Shibutanis for the same reason. With a little home cooking both Bobrova and Soloviev and Ilinykh and Katsalapov will finish ahead of the Shibs, but against D&W or V&M, no dice.

NHK doesn't care, Japan having no dog in the ice-dancing race. However, they can make a deal with USA to take the Shibs in exchance for Skate America taking Marakami, or Oda, or Hanyu. There is even speculation that "older brothers" Scott Moir and Charlie Davis will deliberately decline NHK to give their their "little brother" Alex a treat and to protect him from having to venture into hostile territory in France and Russia.

Is this sport?

Interesting post mathman.

No, this is not sport but a mix of sport and politics with some pageantry thrown in as well.

Looking at the PCS and the makeup of the judging panel at Worlds Alissa never had a chance.
I know she fell once, but she did not fall four times ;)

The Shibs are a young team and hope they don't get abused unnecessarily by the system.
 
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Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
The shibs can't compete in SC any way since V/M will be there.

Gachinsky is in the same situation as the Shibs, a beatable 3rd place to knock down.

OTOH, Oda is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Even Takahashi.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
This whole procedure shows in miniature what is wrong with the sport of figure skating in general.

France wants the Shibutanis because then the home-court advantage will place Pechalat and Bourzat in first place, putting P&B in the finals and knocking the Shibs out. They don't want Davis and White or Virtue and Moir because then no amount of cheating will help P&B.

Russia wants the Shibutanis for the same reason. With a little home cooking both Bobrova and Soloviev and Ilinykh and Katsalapov will finish ahead of the Shibs, but against D&W or V&M, no dice.

NHK doesn't care, Japan having no dog in the ice-dancing race. However, they can make a deal with USA to take the Shibs in exchance for Skate America taking Marakami, or Oda, or Hanyu. There is even speculation that "older brothers" Scott Moir and Charlie Davis will deliberately decline NHK to give their their "little brother" Alex a treat and to protect him from having to venture into hostile territory in France and Russia.

Is this sport?

It would be more sporting if it was random, true. And the ISU move to distribute the slots from the substitution list in itself is actually a good move. In fact, after the host picks, I think distribution should be random.

Hernando, if you don't care, then I'm not sure what your initial question was about.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
It would be more sporting if it was random, true. And the ISU move to distribute the slots from the substitution list in itself is actually a good move. In fact, after the host picks, I think distribution should be random.

Hernando, if you don't care, then I'm not sure what your initial question was about.

I don't care if the Shibs do 2 or 3 GP's next season.

I do notice you continually knock them and wanted to point out if there is "Canadian Dance fan paranoia" about the Shibs that NHK might be happy to invite the Shibs.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
I don't care if the Shibs do 2 or 3 GP's next season.

I do notice you continually knock them and wanted to point out if there is "Canadian Dance fan paranoia" about the Shibs that NHK might be happy to invite the Shibs.

Ah. Thanks for explaining where you came from. I'll try to explain my specific POV here vis-a-vis the Shibs doing three GP events.

My understanding of the rules means that the seeds/top twelve have to select their two GPs first so that those who are guaranteed two events get them, along with the host picks. Due to the fact that the spots are more valuable because there are less of them, I do believe that all federations will try to reserve one of their host picks, if not two, for teams that are unlikely/unable to get a GP spot elsewhere. So to me, while Skate America can certainly be selected as the Shibutanis third event, provided that there are only two American teams previously selected (I'm operating on the assumption that D/W are locks for SA), I'm not necessarily convinced it will happen. As a corrolary to that, I'm almost certain that Skate Canada will avoid giving the Shibutanis a slot there at all costs, if only to avoid the chance that Weaver/Poje don't make that podium.

So now, there are four GPs left. All four are quite far from their training base, and they take place within a month of each other. To me, this kind of travel schedule, along with the consequent missed practice time, is something that any top athlete would try to avoid.

To me, the above post is not knocking the Shibutanis in any way, nor representative of "Canadian Dance Fan Paranoia." To be honest, I think the Shibutanis are a stronger team than Weaver/Poje (To wit, my post on the what I wanted for Dance at Worlds was for the Shibutanis to beat Weaver/Poje). I do think you're projecting a wee bit here (any criticism of American skaters is met, by you, with a corresponding criticism of that poster's national skaters, regardless of ability or logic).
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Unless the Shibs pick uo Skate Canada as their third event.

So the Shibs can beat V/M for the fun of it without gaining points for GPF, right? ;)

And V/M, even if 2nd, can get winner's points nonetheless, right? Does the 4th place team get the 3rd place points if not the medal?
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Ah. Thanks for explaining where you came from. I'll try to explain my specific POV here vis-a-vis the Shibs doing three GP events.

My understanding of the rules means that the seeds/top twelve have to select their two GPs first so that those who are guaranteed two events get them, along with the host picks. Due to the fact that the spots are more valuable because there are less of them, I do believe that all federations will try to reserve one of their host picks, if not two, for teams that are unlikely/unable to get a GP spot elsewhere. So to me, while Skate America can certainly be selected as the Shibutanis third event, provided that there are only two American teams previously selected (I'm operating on the assumption that D/W are locks for SA), I'm not necessarily convinced it will happen. As a corrolary to that, I'm almost certain that Skate Canada will avoid giving the Shibutanis a slot there at all costs, if only to avoid the chance that Weaver/Poje don't make that podium.

So now, there are four GPs left. All four are quite far from their training base, and they take place within a month of each other. To me, this kind of travel schedule, along with the consequent missed practice time, is something that any top athlete would try to avoid.

To me, the above post is not knocking the Shibutanis in any way, nor representative of "Canadian Dance Fan Paranoia." To be honest, I think the Shibutanis are a stronger team than Weaver/Poje (To wit, my post on the what I wanted for Dance at Worlds was for the Shibutanis to beat Weaver/Poje). I do think you're projecting a wee bit here (any criticism of American skaters is met, by you, with a corresponding criticism of that poster's national skaters, regardless of ability or logic).

You sound defensive, and for your sake I hope the Shibs don't go to Canada and KO one of your teams from the GPF.
What a horrifying thought :eek: :p
 
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