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Thread: Which seeded skaters will do three GP events?

  1. #31
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    That's one. So if they do three, they won't do SC, which two others do you think they'll do?
    I don't care if they do two or three. They have a coaching team and federation who will make that decision.

    I would like the Shibs at Skate America because the crowd will like them which would be good for SA.
    I don't think it matters if D/W are there and beat them.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    I can't imagine SC wanting them [the Shibutanis], whereas TEB and CoR definitely do.
    This whole procedure shows in miniature what is wrong with the sport of figure skating in general.

    France wants the Shibutanis because then the home-court advantage will place Pechalat and Bourzat in first place, putting P&B in the finals and knocking the Shibs out. They don't want Davis and White or Virtue and Moir because then no amount of cheating will help P&B.

    Russia wants the Shibutanis for the same reason. With a little home cooking both Bobrova and Soloviev and Ilinykh and Katsalapov will finish ahead of the Shibs, but against D&W or V&M, no dice.

    NHK doesn't care, Japan having no dog in the ice-dancing race. However, they can make a deal with USA to take the Shibs in exchance for Skate America taking Marakami, or Oda, or Hanyu. There is even speculation that "older brothers" Scott Moir and Charlie Davis will deliberately decline NHK to give their their "little brother" Alex a treat and to protect him from having to venture into hostile territory in France and Russia.

    Is this sport?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    This whole procedure shows in miniature what is wrong with the sport of figure skating in general.

    France wants the Shibutanis because then the home-court advantage will place Pechalat and Bourzat in first place, putting P&B in the finals and knocking the Shibs out. They don't want Davis and White or Virtue and Moir because then no amount of cheating will help P&B.

    Russia wants the Shibutanis for the same reason. With a little home cooking both Bobrova and Soloviev and Ilinykh and Katsalapov will finish ahead of the Shibs, but against D&W or V&M, no dice.

    NHK doesn't care, Japan having no dog in the ice-dancing race. However, they can make a deal with USA to take the Shibs in exchance for Skate America taking Marakami, or Oda, or Hanyu. There is even speculation that "older brothers" Scott Moir and Charlie Davis will deliberately decline NHK to give their their "little brother" Alex a treat and to protect him from having to venture into hostile territory in France and Russia.

    Is this sport?
    Interesting post mathman.

    No, this is not sport but a mix of sport and politics with some pageantry thrown in as well.

    Looking at the PCS and the makeup of the judging panel at Worlds Alissa never had a chance.
    I know she fell once, but she did not fall four times

    The Shibs are a young team and hope they don't get abused unnecessarily by the system.
    Last edited by janetfan; 05-08-2011 at 12:36 PM.

  4. #34
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    The shibs can't compete in SC any way since V/M will be there.

    Gachinsky is in the same situation as the Shibs, a beatable 3rd place to knock down.

    OTOH, Oda is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Even Takahashi.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    The shibs can't compete in SC any way since V/M will be there.
    Unless the Shibs pick uo Skate Canada as their third event.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    This whole procedure shows in miniature what is wrong with the sport of figure skating in general.

    France wants the Shibutanis because then the home-court advantage will place Pechalat and Bourzat in first place, putting P&B in the finals and knocking the Shibs out. They don't want Davis and White or Virtue and Moir because then no amount of cheating will help P&B.

    Russia wants the Shibutanis for the same reason. With a little home cooking both Bobrova and Soloviev and Ilinykh and Katsalapov will finish ahead of the Shibs, but against D&W or V&M, no dice.

    NHK doesn't care, Japan having no dog in the ice-dancing race. However, they can make a deal with USA to take the Shibs in exchance for Skate America taking Marakami, or Oda, or Hanyu. There is even speculation that "older brothers" Scott Moir and Charlie Davis will deliberately decline NHK to give their their "little brother" Alex a treat and to protect him from having to venture into hostile territory in France and Russia.

    Is this sport?
    It would be more sporting if it was random, true. And the ISU move to distribute the slots from the substitution list in itself is actually a good move. In fact, after the host picks, I think distribution should be random.

    Hernando, if you don't care, then I'm not sure what your initial question was about.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    It would be more sporting if it was random, true. And the ISU move to distribute the slots from the substitution list in itself is actually a good move. In fact, after the host picks, I think distribution should be random.

    Hernando, if you don't care, then I'm not sure what your initial question was about.
    I don't care if the Shibs do 2 or 3 GP's next season.

    I do notice you continually knock them and wanted to point out if there is "Canadian Dance fan paranoia" about the Shibs that NHK might be happy to invite the Shibs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
    I don't care if the Shibs do 2 or 3 GP's next season.

    I do notice you continually knock them and wanted to point out if there is "Canadian Dance fan paranoia" about the Shibs that NHK might be happy to invite the Shibs.
    Ah. Thanks for explaining where you came from. I'll try to explain my specific POV here vis-a-vis the Shibs doing three GP events.

    My understanding of the rules means that the seeds/top twelve have to select their two GPs first so that those who are guaranteed two events get them, along with the host picks. Due to the fact that the spots are more valuable because there are less of them, I do believe that all federations will try to reserve one of their host picks, if not two, for teams that are unlikely/unable to get a GP spot elsewhere. So to me, while Skate America can certainly be selected as the Shibutanis third event, provided that there are only two American teams previously selected (I'm operating on the assumption that D/W are locks for SA), I'm not necessarily convinced it will happen. As a corrolary to that, I'm almost certain that Skate Canada will avoid giving the Shibutanis a slot there at all costs, if only to avoid the chance that Weaver/Poje don't make that podium.

    So now, there are four GPs left. All four are quite far from their training base, and they take place within a month of each other. To me, this kind of travel schedule, along with the consequent missed practice time, is something that any top athlete would try to avoid.

    To me, the above post is not knocking the Shibutanis in any way, nor representative of "Canadian Dance Fan Paranoia." To be honest, I think the Shibutanis are a stronger team than Weaver/Poje (To wit, my post on the what I wanted for Dance at Worlds was for the Shibutanis to beat Weaver/Poje). I do think you're projecting a wee bit here (any criticism of American skaters is met, by you, with a corresponding criticism of that poster's national skaters, regardless of ability or logic).

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Unless the Shibs pick uo Skate Canada as their third event.
    So the Shibs can beat V/M for the fun of it without gaining points for GPF, right?

    And V/M, even if 2nd, can get winner's points nonetheless, right? Does the 4th place team get the 3rd place points if not the medal?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Ah. Thanks for explaining where you came from. I'll try to explain my specific POV here vis-a-vis the Shibs doing three GP events.

    My understanding of the rules means that the seeds/top twelve have to select their two GPs first so that those who are guaranteed two events get them, along with the host picks. Due to the fact that the spots are more valuable because there are less of them, I do believe that all federations will try to reserve one of their host picks, if not two, for teams that are unlikely/unable to get a GP spot elsewhere. So to me, while Skate America can certainly be selected as the Shibutanis third event, provided that there are only two American teams previously selected (I'm operating on the assumption that D/W are locks for SA), I'm not necessarily convinced it will happen. As a corrolary to that, I'm almost certain that Skate Canada will avoid giving the Shibutanis a slot there at all costs, if only to avoid the chance that Weaver/Poje don't make that podium.

    So now, there are four GPs left. All four are quite far from their training base, and they take place within a month of each other. To me, this kind of travel schedule, along with the consequent missed practice time, is something that any top athlete would try to avoid.

    To me, the above post is not knocking the Shibutanis in any way, nor representative of "Canadian Dance Fan Paranoia." To be honest, I think the Shibutanis are a stronger team than Weaver/Poje (To wit, my post on the what I wanted for Dance at Worlds was for the Shibutanis to beat Weaver/Poje). I do think you're projecting a wee bit here (any criticism of American skaters is met, by you, with a corresponding criticism of that poster's national skaters, regardless of ability or logic).
    You sound defensive, and for your sake I hope the Shibs don't go to Canada and KO one of your teams from the GPF.
    What a horrifying thought

  11. #41
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    The Shibutanis could choose do to SC as a third event, if a vacancy came up and the ISU offered them the opportunity. Of course, this would be their NON-SCORING event.

    I hope everyone understands that a non-scoring event still keeps the placement (and prize money). So if the Shibs did SC and finished 2nd, beating W/P, the Shibs would win silver and no points, but W/P would get bronze and 11 (not 13) points.

    That's the main objection to seeds doing extra events---it stacks the deck against the other competitors.
    Last edited by chuckm; 05-08-2011 at 01:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    The Shibutanis could choose do to SC as a third event, if a vacancy came up and the ISU offered them the opportunity. Of course, this would be their NON-SCORING event.
    And I'm not entirely clear on how this works, either. You're right, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
    You sound defensive, and for your sake I hope the Shibs don't go to Canada and KO one of your teams from the GPF.
    What a horrifying thought
    ImaginaryPogue is one of the most rational, analytical, and articulate posters in GS and his/her patient answer to your "Canadian dance fan paranoia" is typically so. Adding another baseless characterization instead of supporting your original accusation constrasts you in a very unfavorable light IMO.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    ImaginaryPogue is one of the most rational, analytical, and articulate posters in GS and his patient answer to your "Canadian dance fan paranoia" is typically so. Adding another baseless characterization instead of supporting your original accusation constrasts you in a very unfavorable light IMO.
    Easy to see the sporting view from Canada. No Shibs at SC.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
    Easy to see the sporting view from Canada. No Shibs at SC.
    Nobody here gets to choose who goes where, so it's all speculations, some done more logically and comprehensively than others. I don't think most of the opinions reflect any personal preferences but rather the speculated skaters' and federations' preferences, based on various factors.

    Projection of motives is rather self revealing.

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