Selecting Skaters for the GP series

[CARA]

Pogue:

It is true that Hubbell/Hubbell retired?
Also, according to your chart, Chock/Zuerlein skate back to back on SC & CoC? How likely would they do so? Humm...

[Mathman]

Realistically, skaters in this group will want to avoid S/A at all costs...

Very depressing. Cowering in the corner because you are afraid to compete against the top teams? What kind of a sport is this?

The Grand Prix should just go out of business altogether if everyone is terrified of competition.

[janetfan]

Very depressing. Cowering in the corner because you are afraid to compete against the top teams? What kind of a sport is this?

The Grand Prix should just go out of business altogether if everyone is terrified of competition.

To be fair we don't know that the skaters feel this way.

We do know that federations manuever to protect certain skaters and that some fans dream of their favorites making the GPF by skating at the least competitive events.

I hope when ISU said they wanted to make skating more like a "real sport" this is not what they had in mind.

Speedy wants more of the top skaters doing three events because attendance is down.

This does make it harder to hide and seems to have upset some of the fans.

What could be better for Men's skating than to get Plushenko at SC this season?

[Joesitz]

Blanc/Bouquet have split.

Also, the ISU has updated the World Ranking list to remove the 2008/2009 data, so all the rankings have changed quite a bit.

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/pa...v-list,00.html

I don't think the ISU is going to give seeds 3 events right off the bat, at least not Men, Ladies and Dance. Pairs is a sparse discipline due to all the splits and retirements, so that is the one exception. I think for all disciplines, though, the seeds will get first chance at vacancies.

And even if the ISU did let the seeds schedule 3 spots from the getgo, I do not see V/M doing SA and SC back-to-back. Not going to happen!

Chuckm - Can you point me to a link that explains how a skater/team get the points for ranking? I really would appreciate that. When I looked at the List of Men, I noticed Contesti was way above so many skaters whom I consider better.

I'm aware that the points are awarded on the basis of placements of all ISU sanctioned competitions. Many of these competitions are considered "B" comps. Others, of course, are the GP entrants (question: do the individual placements get the same points as the Final?), , the Euros, 4CCs, Worlds. any others?.

Another question: at what point of the Listings is the cut off for calling some names as being Seeded? Would it be 6 events x 8 entrants for each division that makes 48?

Thanks again for any help you give me (and others) to understand the use of Seeding.

[Joesitz]

One other question: While looking over the list of Pairs, I noticed Marley/Brubaker are 48. I remember you mentioned that the cut-off now is 45 not 48. Yes?

I presume, if there are any vacant slots, the next in line will not get a slot but it will be given to Seeded skaters. That I understood, but how is that Seeded skater(s) chosen among so many?

[Mathman]

Can you point me to a link that explains how a skater/team get the points for ranking?

On this page, click on Communication 1629 and scroll down to the bottom (page 5) to see how many points a skater gets for various achievements.

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/pa...v-list,00.html

To see how this works, click on World Standing, then Men Standings.

If you look at Takahashi, he got 840 points for winning Four Continents. Since this was higher that the 787 points he got for finishing 5th at Worlds, he gets the higher amount, 840.

He got 583 points for 4th place in the Grand Prix Finals. He got 400 points for winning an individual Grand Prix event, NHK.

He did not do any B events last year.

So Takahashi’s total points for the 2010-2011 season are 840+583+400 = 1823.

At what point of the Listings is the cut off for calling some names as being Seeded?

The "Seeded" skaters are those that finished in the top six at Worlds. For men, the six seeded skaters are Chan, Kosuka, Gachinski, Brezina, Takahashi and Oda.

[ImaginaryPogue]

Blanc/Bouquet have split.

Also, the ISU has updated the World Ranking list to remove the 2008/2009 data, so all the rankings have changed quite a bit.

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/pa...v-list,00.html

I don't think the ISU is going to give seeds 3 events right off the bat, at least not Men, Ladies and Dance. Pairs is a sparse discipline due to all the splits and retirements, so that is the one exception. I think for all disciplines, though, the seeds will get first chance at vacancies.

And even if the ISU did let the seeds schedule 3 spots from the getgo, I do not see V/M doing SA and SC back-to-back. Not going to happen!

Yeah, I used the new rankings. I also just decided I wanted V/M to do Skate America.

[Sylvia]

It is true that Hubbell/Hubbell retired?

Madison Hubbell & Keiffer Hubbell are currently listed in USFS' 2011-12 International Selection Pool; there's been no official announcement from USFS to date.

While looking over the list of Pairs, I noticed Marley/Brubaker are 48. I remember you mentioned that the cut-off now is 45 not 48. Yes?

Is there a cut-off? There's been some talk about how M/B may not meet the new GP minimum qualifying score for a GP invitation but it's yet not known whether or not this proposed selection criterion will actually be implemented.

[ImaginaryPogue]

Back to back events suck, but aren't uncommon. Jeremy Ten did NHK and SC back to back. I/M did SC and CoC back to back. Asada did TEB and CoR back-to-back in 2009.

The Hubbells have split up. I believe he retired whereas she's skating with someone else.

People aren't terrified of competition. Mao Asada had no problem competing against Yu-Na Kim right off the bat at TEB in the 09/10 season, and that grouping also had Kostner, Nakano and a fairly heavy hitting line-up. But if the goal is to make the GPF, get ranking points that genuinely affect placements next season (for the GP series, as well as where you skate at Worlds), then it does seem that strategizing is beneficial.

[Joesitz]

MM - Thanks for the info. It's interesting that the combined total for GP events plus Final can receive more points than the World Champion. That's given me more interest in the GP series as a very valid test for the season. However, I can not think of any skater today who can win both GP events and the GP Final. That would make a good prediction thread.

The "B" competitions do add up, and European skaters take advantage of that. So many non Eur skaters don't bother.

Besides the GP events and Final, how else would this Worlds Standings be used?

[CARA]

Back to back events suck, but aren't uncommon. Jeremy Ten did NHK and SC back to back. I/M did SC and CoC back to back. Asada did TEB and CoR back-to-back in 2009.

The Hubbells have split up. I believe he retired whereas she's skating with someone else.

Ok, I see your rationale for C/Z back-to-back assignment, though I hope that they don't end up doing so.

Regarding the Hubbells, I've always considered Keiffer to be the weaker skater than Madison. Do you happen to know who Madison is skating now? Also, is she still with Krylova/Carmelango? I really wish the Hubbells best luck.

[ImaginaryPogue]

MM - Thanks for the info. It's interesting that the combined total for GP events plus Final can receive more points than the World Champion. That's given me more interest in the GP series as a very valid test for the season. However, I can not think of any skater today who can win both GP events and the GP Final. That would make a good prediction thread.

The "B" competitions do add up, and European skaters take advantage of that. So many non Eur skaters don't bother.

Besides the GP events and Final, how else would this Worlds Standings be used?

1. World standings affect which group you skate in at Worlds.
2. Before, there used to be a bonus that the skaters earned based on standings. That's since been disbanded.

3. CARA, I'm not entirely sure who she's skating with.

[janetfan]

1. World standings affect which group you skate in at Worlds.
.

But that was important in 6.0 with it's comparitive judging.

If the CoP is working properly and follwing it's own rules then skating order shoud be meaningless and the group you skate in shoud not matter.

Yes or no?

[Mathman]

To be fair we don't know that the skaters feel this way.

People aren't terrified of competition. Mao Asada had no problem competing against Yu-Na Kim right off the bat at TEB in the 09/10 season, and that grouping also had Kostner, Nakano and a fairly heavy hitting line-up.

Good point. We have not heard from the skaters themselves on this question.

Thanks for the info. It's interesting that the combined total for GP events plus Final can receive more points than the World Champion.

I think the purpose of having these rankings in the first place was to encourage the top skaters not to skip the Grand Prix and Four Continents. Also to encourage and reward participation in the B events.

The rankings have no particular purpose otherwise, except that people like to make lists.

[ImaginaryPogue]

But that was important in 6.0 with it's comparitive judging.

If the CoP is working properly and follwing it's own rules then skating order shoud be meaningless and the group you skate in shoud not matter.

Yes or no?

Yes.