just for curiosity......which one do you think is more legendary? plushy in 2006 or in 2010?Originally Posted by pangtongfan
btw: wonder if he can be regarded as "legend" by most person here without season 09~10
just for curiosity......which one do you think is more legendary? plushy in 2006 or in 2010?
btw: wonder if he can be regarded as "legend" by most person here without season 09~10
Last edited by wmsb; 05-22-2011 at 07:00 AM. Reason: add
That's actually a reasonable question, wmsb. I'd say both are legendary, and 2010 didn't tarnish his status all that much (to me).
By 2006, he had demonstrated he was the dominant figure skating of his quad. He only lost twice, and one of those losses was a complete fluke with the rules (GPF to Emmanuel Sandhu). But everything he'd accomplished: the youngest man to medal at Worlds, the rivalry with Yagudin, his own personal story... all these things contributed.
I know ptf and others think that 2010 tarnished that. But it really depends on how you think history looks at it. I anticipate history going to the record books first: seeing a skater tkae three seasons off than come back and nearly win gold. Now, it wasn't nearly as well-skated an event as some of us would've liked. But, regardless, that fact alone speaks volumes for his competitive vigour.
2014? Well, truth be told, I almost think it'll be like Stoijko in 2002. Stoijko had a personal goal (it's wierd to think that 2002 represents the first time he landed a quad at the Olympics) and met it, so the results didn't matter as much to him. Canada didn't have two contenders who were stronger (Sandhu did beat him in 2001 Worlds), so it wasn't like he was taking someone else's spot for a legacy pick or anything. But at the same time, it feels very much like a footnote in his career. Plushenko has his own goals. I hope he meets them (provided he doesn't beat my favourite skaters, of course).
I recommend Pangtongfan to watch on Youtube videos from 2008, he/she will change his/her mind about Plushenko tarnishing his status in Vancouver.
Only people who enjoy the statistics more than the skaters would think that a skater like Plushenko could somehow diminish his legend by trying one more Olympics. That kind of effort looks untidy on paper, and maybe it somehow brings a skaters "average" down, but a perfect record and a legendary skater are not necessarily the same thing. (An extreme case in point: Kurt Browning.) Plushenko did a fabulous job at the 2010 Olympics, coming within a hair of winning a second gold. (Some fans continue to argue that he actually did win in all aspects but the judges' decision.) Did Katarina Witt tarnish her illustrious record of two Olympic golds by skating in 1994 and coming in nowhere? Of course not. She's still the only postwar ladies' double-gold medalist. If Plushenko somehow maintains his skills and earns a spot on the Russian team for Sochi, good for him, however his results turn out. As for his ego, well, he certainly has one. But at this moment in Russian skating history, a guy with that much self-confidence can only help them rebuild their program. It's not as if he's delusional about his place in the skating pantheon, after all. He is indeed one of the greats. So why shouldn't he go for it?
Last edited by Olympia; 05-22-2011 at 02:17 PM.
Because there is nothing sadder then watching a former great athlete who's only a shadow of what he once was. Sort of like when Michael Jordan came back a final time with the Washington Wizards. While still a good player he wasn't the great player he once was and should have stayed retired.
^
please dont cry...
sort of like when Michael Schumacher struggling in fomula 1 and beaten by his team member Nico Roseberg (not in spanish though)
(actually, when plushy is competing and probably beaten by Gachinski, i am really curious whom will get more support from rsu and coach and team))
anyway, imo, michael jordan and michael schumacher's career in washington wizards and mercedes won't tarnish there legacy. if jordan became less great because of washington wizard? i don't think so. so neither does plushy.
furthermore, to me, achievement is an accumulated number instead of an average one, so it's unreasonable to say plushys 09/10 season (with 1 euro gold and 1 olympic silver) makes his history position lower than before (just my opinion).
No Jordan playing with the Wizards won't hurt his legacy but who wants to see Michael Jordan at less then his best? Same with Plushy. If he goes to Sochi and can't even land his quads what has he gained? Just stay retired and let us remember how you were.
Plushenko in 2014 would probably look like Michael Schumacher today, fighting for spots barely inside or outside the top 10 and embarassing himself for a past dominant champion. If 2010 and already 60% of his old self and losing to a skater (Lysacek) who in his prime he could have beaten with a broken leg, did not hurt his legacy in anyway, then what he will look like and how he will compare to the Patrick Chans of the World by Sochi at age 31 on his butchered knees most definitely will.
^ To whom is an athlete embarassed? his mum? friends? fans? the press? universe? alliens? press didnt write something embarassing about the vancouver defeat, yes besides the Plushenko was beaten for Gold and all teh jazz about the quad declarations, which was true I didnt see a massacre of embrassment in press about his comeback, on the contrary.
Whats the deal with Evgeni and before and after Vancouver people are pulling their hair out because of a comeback. In Vancouver Daisuke came back after a surgery, Lambiel after an injury, were they embarassing as well?Lambiel was in his thrid Olys as well, like Joubert and KVDP. Cause Daisuke and Lambiel before injury would have won Lysacek with a broken leg too. Same old stuff were told before 2010, many skaters that have declared to continue now till Sochi will be above 27 by then, Dai, Tomas, Joubert etc have said to continue and I dont see a cry of embarassment about it.
Besides after Vancouver, surprising or not Plu gained even more fans and maybe he wants to open a fluffy animals shop cause as long as he gets this everytime in shows people give him the right to be skating as long as he likes.
No one could say it better than that, Seniorita.
Just wanted to add that a man named Bernard Hopkins just won the light-heavyweight world championship...at the age of 46. This puts him in the record books. The thing to remember about sports is the phrase "Hey, you never know!"
I'm not the Plushy fan you are, S, but I probably had an equivalent reaction to Lambiel competing in 2010. My foremost thought was that I wouldn't have missed that short program for the world. And you know how many of us Kwaniacs would have been thrilled to see her just skate the telephone book in 2006 or even 2010.
Plushy's spastic footwork that passes for step sequences will look ridiculous compared to someone like Chan. It looked ridiculous compared to Evan so you can imagine how it will look in Sochi with the men's field being much deeper and Evgeni 4 years older.
That´s why there is a judge panel to judge. They will decide how Plushy´s footwork looks like compared to Chan or anybody else.
Yeah, I was/am also wondering why Plush' come back made so many people unhappy, confused, even angry or whatever. While other skaters, who were in the same situations, were not touched by angry wings. The answer is obvious: the guy is special.
Exactly.Yeah, I was/am also wondering why Plush' come back made so many people unhappy, confused, even angry or whatever. While other skaters, who were in the same situations, were not touched by angry wings. The answer is obvious: the guy is special.
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