Thanx Oympia, always a new thing to learn here
Thanx Oympia, always a new thing to learn here
If Plushenko meets his goals, he will beat everyone including your favourites of course.Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue
Stoijko can only dream of Plushenkos record, not even close to compare.
But if Plushenko have won gold in 2002 probably your favorites had better medals in 2006 and 2010, but unsatisfied Plushenko will be very hungry again and unstoppable
he is not unstoppable now. competing with other young talent and his own age&injury, it's a war he will definitely lose completely. the only question is when.
he has written a letter with something like "unlike Coubertin, my principle is not only participate, but also win" -- maybe he is hungry, but i really think he has eaten very much and has a too good stomach
(btw, seems the letter is written publicly as per rsu's request. interesting)
Stojko has the same # of World titles as Plushenko actually. And he competed against 2 Olympic winners and Eldredge. Plushenko had no competition once Yagudin retired. From 2003-2006 he simply had to get through competitions in one piece to win.
I agree Plushenko is probably a better skater than Stojko (although I think both in their primes Stojko would have given him a major challenge) but I doubt he would do any better in Sochi than Stojko did in Salt Lake City all things considered.
And I agree with the person who said his goals will definitely be to win. And that is exactly why he would be crazy to return. Him striving to even challenge someone like Chan at this point is like Fumie Suguri striving for an Olympic medal in Sochi.
Their records are very close indeed
Stojko:
- 3-time world champ
- first to land 4/2, 4/3
- 2-time olympic medalist
- 4-time olympian
Plushy:
- 3-time world champ
- first to land 4/3/2, 4/3/3
- 3-time olympic medalist
- 3-time olympian
Plushy invited Stojko to 'Kings on Ice', so he respects Stojko.
Last edited by bibi24; 05-24-2011 at 09:56 PM.
Stojko way past his prime also beat Plushenko at the 2000 Worlds arguably already in his prime. Anyway it is all a moot point.
shrug. Only time will tell.If Plushenko meets his goals, he will beat everyone including your favourites of course.
Stoijko can only dream of Plushenkos record, not even close to compare.
But if Plushenko have won gold in 2002 probably your favorites had better medals in 2006 and 2010, but unsatisfied Plushenko will be very hungry again and unstoppable
They are very close indeed
Stojko:
- 3-time world champ
- first to land 4/2, 4/3
- 2-time olympic medalist
- 4-time olympian
Plushy:
- 3-time world champ
- first to land 4/3/2, 4/3/3
- 3-time olympic medalist
- 3-time olympian
Plushy invited Stojko to 'Kings on Ice', so he respects Stojko.
I can make them more close or Stojko better than Plushy like this
Stojko:
- 6-time world medalist
- 11-time national medalist
- first to land 4/2, 4/3
- 2-time olympic medalist
- 4-time olympian
Plushy:
- 5-time world medalist
- 9-time national medalist
- first to land 4/3/2, 4/3/3
- 3-time olympic medalist
- 3-time olympian
Hard to say plushy will do better in Sochi than Stojko in SLC. 3 years is very long time, maybe finally he will change mind and quit.
btw, plushy has competed with 2 olympic winner too
IIRC, Stojko finished in 8th place at SLC. I think that Plushenko COULD do better than that in Sochi (although I much prefer Stojko). Plushenko's not a favourite of mine, but I think he is capable of beating all the current men except Chan and maybe Takahashi. I just say maybe for Takahashi, because he did beat Takahashi in 2010, which wasn't that long ago. I know that Takahashi might have been ahead if he hadn't tried the quad flip, but still, maybe not. If Patrick Chan starts to falter (although I don't foresee that as a likely possibility), and nobody else improves by a great degree (although some probably will), Plushenko could get another Olympic gold. Of course, he could end up in 8th or even lower if he doesn't skate well and others do. However, I have a hard time believing that he even will go to Sochi. I think Gachinski might become a medal contender in the next couple of years (heck, he already won a world bronze although I know some questioned the scoring on that), and Plushenko won't be as 'needed' by the Russian federation anymore.
Re: Stojko in his prime beating Plushenko in his prime, I would have to give this one to Plushenko even though as I said, I prefer Stojko by far. Yeah, Stojko did beat Plushenko in 2000, but Plushenko wasn't really in his prime then, IMO. His prime is like 2002-2005, I would say. Plushenko is a bit more artistic than Stojko, even though both are not very artistic really, and Plushenko had harder jumps (although Stojko gets credit for having the hardest jumps of his era; maybe he would have gone for 4-3-2s etc. if he had been in his prime in the 2000s like Plush was).
don't forget Takahiko Kozuka, whose tes is even higher than chan! and oda, i really like him inspite of his bad bad bad matha list of people can beat plushy if he stay where he is. and, yeah, probably Gachinski
i wonder how to decide when is the "prime", physically or mentally? if based on achievement, obviously 2001 is (one of) plushy's prime as well (maybe 2004 is not).
artistic is very subjective. just question, if presentation under 6.0 system or pcs give any information about artistic? sometimes they looks more like "execution" instead of "artistic"......then, which element can reflect artistic? or it's just depends on individual's like or dislike?
He has talked about competing in Russia so much and nearly every time he talks that unless something seriously injurious happens I don't see him not attempting it. He absolutely must do something next season as part of him getting eligibitly back. He can't renege because if he reneges probably no more eligibility ever again! So I bet he does do 2014 nationals no matter what as well as doing something next season. COR probably. The competition will probably have to be ISU and not just Russian nationals.
If Kozuka skates like he did in the Worlds LP he will blow Plushenko of even Vancouver vintage away in the LP phase anyway, never mind that Plushenko is pretty much certain to only be alot worse by then. Heck the level of skating by the top 6 or 7 guys was really high at Worlds, if a few of them clean up on the mistakes nearly all of them will be unbeatable for Plushenko at this point in his career (he was already well past his prime in Vancouver). Gashinski only has to improve a bit and he will be better than Plushenko at this point would be capable of being, making it even less likely for Plushenko to return, he probably wouldnt even be Russian #1 anymore.
And Chan would have to do more than falter for Plushenko to challenge him at this point. He would have to sit on the ice for half the program then take a big dump in front of the judges.
He could return and not qualify like Sasha Cohen. Short programs I think he would be competitive in even in 2014.
I agree that Plushenko will be hungry in 2014, because he had won the gold in 2010 if he and his team had payed a liiittle bit attention towards CoP. Just very little was needed for his 2010 win. But will the situation be like that in 2014 anymore? Yeah, although his mind will be hungry, his body will be 4 years older. Will that body be able to obey his mind and what more injuries he might be getting during the years before the 2014 Olympics? Of course injuries are a risk for every skater, but besides that Plushenko will also be a lot older than most of his competitors.But if Plushenko have won gold in 2002 probably your favorites had better medals in 2006 and 2010, but unsatisfied Plushenko will be very hungry again and unstoppable
Last edited by Jaana; 05-25-2011 at 03:11 AM.
Jaana is right, Plushenko can do anything if his body resists. Will his body resist? We don´t know, that´s what everybody, Plushenko himself too, wants to find out. He can fail and prove it´s impossible for a figure skater to compete successfully after a certain age or he can provide a surprise.
Plushenko loves to compete, he will be delighted to compete next season against strong skaters like Chan, Kozuka, Gachinshi, etc.
Last edited by ciocio; 05-25-2011 at 03:08 AM.
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