just for curiosity......which one do you think is more legendary? plushy in 2006 or in 2010?
btw: wonder if he can be regarded as "legend" by most person here without season 09~10 :think:
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Plushenko wants to become a legend of figure skating
- Thread starter Violet Bliss
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just for curiosity......which one do you think is more legendary? plushy in 2006 or in 2010?
btw: wonder if he can be regarded as "legend" by most person here without season 09~10 :think:
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That's actually a reasonable question, wmsb. I'd say both are legendary, and 2010 didn't tarnish his status all that much (to me).
By 2006, he had demonstrated he was the dominant figure skating of his quad. He only lost twice, and one of those losses was a complete fluke with the rules (GPF to Emmanuel Sandhu). But everything he'd accomplished: the youngest man to medal at Worlds, the rivalry with Yagudin, his own personal story... all these things contributed.
I know ptf and others think that 2010 tarnished that. But it really depends on how you think history looks at it. I anticipate history going to the record books first: seeing a skater tkae three seasons off than come back and nearly win gold. Now, it wasn't nearly as well-skated an event as some of us would've liked. But, regardless, that fact alone speaks volumes for his competitive vigour.
2014? Well, truth be told, I almost think it'll be like Stoijko in 2002. Stoijko had a personal goal (it's wierd to think that 2002 represents the first time he landed a quad at the Olympics) and met it, so the results didn't matter as much to him. Canada didn't have two contenders who were stronger (Sandhu did beat him in 2001 Worlds), so it wasn't like he was taking someone else's spot for a legacy pick or anything. But at the same time, it feels very much like a footnote in his career. Plushenko has his own goals. I hope he meets them (provided he doesn't beat my favourite skaters, of course).
By 2006, he had demonstrated he was the dominant figure skating of his quad. He only lost twice, and one of those losses was a complete fluke with the rules (GPF to Emmanuel Sandhu). But everything he'd accomplished: the youngest man to medal at Worlds, the rivalry with Yagudin, his own personal story... all these things contributed.
I know ptf and others think that 2010 tarnished that. But it really depends on how you think history looks at it. I anticipate history going to the record books first: seeing a skater tkae three seasons off than come back and nearly win gold. Now, it wasn't nearly as well-skated an event as some of us would've liked. But, regardless, that fact alone speaks volumes for his competitive vigour.
2014? Well, truth be told, I almost think it'll be like Stoijko in 2002. Stoijko had a personal goal (it's wierd to think that 2002 represents the first time he landed a quad at the Olympics) and met it, so the results didn't matter as much to him. Canada didn't have two contenders who were stronger (Sandhu did beat him in 2001 Worlds), so it wasn't like he was taking someone else's spot for a legacy pick or anything. But at the same time, it feels very much like a footnote in his career. Plushenko has his own goals. I hope he meets them (provided he doesn't beat my favourite skaters, of course).
Only people who enjoy the statistics more than the skaters would think that a skater like Plushenko could somehow diminish his legend by trying one more Olympics. That kind of effort looks untidy on paper, and maybe it somehow brings a skaters "average" down, but a perfect record and a legendary skater are not necessarily the same thing. (An extreme case in point: Kurt Browning.) Plushenko did a fabulous job at the 2010 Olympics, coming within a hair of winning a second gold. (Some fans continue to argue that he actually did win in all aspects but the judges' decision.) Did Katarina Witt tarnish her illustrious record of two Olympic golds by skating in 1994 and coming in nowhere? Of course not. She's still the only postwar ladies' double-gold medalist. If Plushenko somehow maintains his skills and earns a spot on the Russian team for Sochi, good for him, however his results turn out. As for his ego, well, he certainly has one. But at this moment in Russian skating history, a guy with that much self-confidence can only help them rebuild their program. It's not as if he's delusional about his place in the skating pantheon, after all. He is indeed one of the greats. So why shouldn't he go for it?
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Because there is nothing sadder then watching a former great athlete who's only a shadow of what he once was. Sort of like when Michael Jordan came back a final time with the Washington Wizards. While still a good player he wasn't the great player he once was and should have stayed retired.
sort of like when Michael Schumacher struggling in fomula 1 and beaten by his team member Nico Roseberg (not in spanish though
) (actually, when plushy is competing and probably beaten by Gachinski, i am really curious whom will get more support from rsu and coach and team
))anyway, imo, michael jordan and michael schumacher's career in washington wizards and mercedes won't tarnish there legacy. if jordan became less great because of washington wizard? i don't think so. so neither does plushy.
furthermore, to me, achievement is an accumulated number instead of an average one, so it's unreasonable to say plushys 09/10 season (with 1 euro gold and 1 olympic silver) makes his history position lower than before (just my opinion).
No Jordan playing with the Wizards won't hurt his legacy but who wants to see Michael Jordan at less then his best? Same with Plushy. If he goes to Sochi and can't even land his quads what has he gained? Just stay retired and let us remember how you were.
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- Jun 16, 2010
Plushenko in 2014 would probably look like Michael Schumacher today, fighting for spots barely inside or outside the top 10 and embarassing himself for a past dominant champion. If 2010 and already 60% of his old self and losing to a skater (Lysacek) who in his prime he could have beaten with a broken leg, did not hurt his legacy in anyway, then what he will look like and how he will compare to the Patrick Chans of the World by Sochi at age 31 on his butchered knees most definitely will.
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- Jun 3, 2008
^ To whom is an athlete embarassed? his mum? friends? fans? the press? universe? alliens? press didnt write something embarassing about the vancouver defeat, yes besides the Plushenko was beaten for Gold and all teh jazz about the quad declarations, which was true I didnt see a massacre of embrassment in press about his comeback, on the contrary.
Whats the deal with Evgeni and before and after Vancouver people are pulling their hair out because of a comeback. In Vancouver Daisuke came back after a surgery, Lambiel after an injury, were they embarassing as well?Lambiel was in his thrid Olys as well, like Joubert and KVDP. Cause Daisuke and Lambiel before injury would have won Lysacek with a broken leg too. Same old stuff were told before 2010, many skaters that have declared to continue now till Sochi will be above 27 by then, Dai, Tomas, Joubert etc have said to continue and I dont see a cry of embarassment about it.
Besides after Vancouver, surprising or not Plu gained even more fans and maybe he wants to open a fluffy animals shop cause as long as he gets this everytime in shows people give him the right to be skating as long as he likes.
Whats the deal with Evgeni and before and after Vancouver people are pulling their hair out because of a comeback. In Vancouver Daisuke came back after a surgery, Lambiel after an injury, were they embarassing as well?Lambiel was in his thrid Olys as well, like Joubert and KVDP. Cause Daisuke and Lambiel before injury would have won Lysacek with a broken leg too. Same old stuff were told before 2010, many skaters that have declared to continue now till Sochi will be above 27 by then, Dai, Tomas, Joubert etc have said to continue and I dont see a cry of embarassment about it.
Besides after Vancouver, surprising or not Plu gained even more fans and maybe he wants to open a fluffy animals shop cause as long as he gets this everytime in shows people give him the right to be skating as long as he likes.
No one could say it better than that, Seniorita.
Just wanted to add that a man named Bernard Hopkins just won the light-heavyweight world championship...at the age of 46. This puts him in the record books. The thing to remember about sports is the phrase "Hey, you never know!"
I'm not the Plushy fan you are, S, but I probably had an equivalent reaction to Lambiel competing in 2010. My foremost thought was that I wouldn't have missed that short program for the world. And you know how many of us Kwaniacs would have been thrilled to see her just skate the telephone book in 2006 or even 2010.
Just wanted to add that a man named Bernard Hopkins just won the light-heavyweight world championship...at the age of 46. This puts him in the record books. The thing to remember about sports is the phrase "Hey, you never know!"
I'm not the Plushy fan you are, S, but I probably had an equivalent reaction to Lambiel competing in 2010. My foremost thought was that I wouldn't have missed that short program for the world. And you know how many of us Kwaniacs would have been thrilled to see her just skate the telephone book in 2006 or even 2010.
Plushy's spastic footwork that passes for step sequences will look ridiculous compared to someone like Chan. It looked ridiculous compared to Evan so you can imagine how it will look in Sochi with the men's field being much deeper and Evgeni 4 years older.
That´s why there is a judge panel to judge. They will decide how Plushy´s footwork looks like compared to Chan or anybody else. :disapp:
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- Sep 10, 2009
Yeah, I was/am also wondering why Plush' come back made so many people unhappy, confused, even angry or whatever. While other skaters, who were in the same situations, were not touched by angry wings. The answer is obvious: the guy is special. :thumbsup:
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Exactly.
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that was the argument going into the Olympics... he was outflailled by Evan and they came one and two... just saying.
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Lambiel and Takahashi were only 24 and 23 in Vancouver, not 31. And Lambiel and Takahashi were NEVER dominant skaters, so it is not like 3rd or 4th place finishes are bad for them. BTW Lambiels PB scores are much lower than Lysacek achieved in Vancouver (check the ISU bios if you dont believe me, they arent even close), so even Lambiel at his best would not be good enough to beat someone like Evan in Vancouver anyway, but that is a whole other topic.
BTW no way will Joubert be around for 2014. I gaurantee with his declining results he will retire after the 2012 Worlds at the latest. Highly doubt Takahashi being supplanted as the top Japanese man will be there either. Only Verner maybe he is a late bloomer and has never won a World medal so he doesnt have much to live up to anyway, but probably not unless he wins a World medal before then.
And after Vancouver many talked about Plushenko was just a guy who lands jumps and quads, and not even very well done jumps, which is why he lost to maybe the most average Oly champion ever like Lysacek. Some seemed to merge the idea that was what he was even in his prime years of long ago, which is not the case at all. If anything it gave a final impression to some he is a weaker skater than what he was in his heyday. As for embarassing himself I dont know what rock you were living under but the press, atleast in North America, were all over his sour graped campaign and complaints about himself not winning, a quadlesss winner, etc...after the event.
I am not angry about the idea of Plushenko making a comeback. If he does I will feel sorry for him though, and it is something to laugh over really, since his result will be ridiculously bad, and we all remember how he reacted to taking only silver in Vancouver. I find comedy in the idea, not anger, not that I wish ill on him but if he does something that stupid obviously nobody can help him or his sad situation.
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jordan and others did't know what would happen until they experienced it. they knew they had passed their prime, but they didn't know what they could get. jordan's prime is 90~93, after his prime, between 95~98, he won another 3 rings. plushy passed his prime since 2003 maybe 2004 (imo), and he got euro gold, world gold and oly gold. he passed his prime far away in 2010, and got euro gold and oly silver. now he just want another try.
I understand someone hope athletes leave with the best ending (i belong to them, sometimes), but lots of athletes don't think so. they prefer to trying their limitation, or jordan would have quit after 1993 (or 1998), kobe 2010, Schumacher 2004, Armstrong 2005, kwan 2003, etc.
i donn't know who want to see MJ at less then his best. but i am sure there are lots of person want to see plushy's failure
. before 2010, somebody has said he/she would like to see plushy being kicked ass by chan. at least plushy can satisfy them nowembarassment is a feelling. it exists when people feel it. if you don't feel it, it doesnot exist. i can't say plushy will definited not feel embarassed when he end up with, for example, 13, but that's the risk he must take. Furthermore maybe he is not as clever as us
to considering the tarnished legacy and embarassment, because he said in the interview (before 2010 oly) is something like "i have nothing to lose". and hello pangtongfan, please don't neglect me and please take my interview......which one do you think is more legendary? plushy in 2006 or in 2010?
And after Vancouver, also many talked about Plushenko is a lengend and many become his fans after 2010 (i cannt understand why, but it does happen:sheesh
if you find comedy in the comeback idea, don't feel sorry. just sit down and see what will happen and laugh what should be laughed at
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But how much of that stuff about Plushenko was written because the Olympics were going to be held in Canada. 2014 is in Russia. The American press and networks can write and say all they want but the Olympics wont be in an English speaking country. All that could become totally irrelevent! The Judges were in Canada hearing how horrible and reading how terrible he was every day! The context is going to be all different. There would be much more support for all Russian skaters in 2014.
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- Jun 3, 2008
No it was not the whole press in North America, it was specific journalists and commentators, plus trolls on the boards who disappeared after Olys (most of them) so I dont like to generalize a negative feeling for a whole continent. And I prefer watch further than my nose which fortunately is smaller than Plushenko´s.
And dont like the grass they serve me to eat. And You seem to have strange ways to entertain yourself, I have another sense of humor. So yeap I m living under a different rock. 
