that was the argument going into the Olympics... he was outflailled by Evan and they came one and two... just saying.Originally Posted by Jammers
that was the argument going into the Olympics... he was outflailled by Evan and they came one and two... just saying.
Lambiel and Takahashi were only 24 and 23 in Vancouver, not 31. And Lambiel and Takahashi were NEVER dominant skaters, so it is not like 3rd or 4th place finishes are bad for them. BTW Lambiels PB scores are much lower than Lysacek achieved in Vancouver (check the ISU bios if you dont believe me, they arent even close), so even Lambiel at his best would not be good enough to beat someone like Evan in Vancouver anyway, but that is a whole other topic.
BTW no way will Joubert be around for 2014. I gaurantee with his declining results he will retire after the 2012 Worlds at the latest. Highly doubt Takahashi being supplanted as the top Japanese man will be there either. Only Verner maybe he is a late bloomer and has never won a World medal so he doesnt have much to live up to anyway, but probably not unless he wins a World medal before then.
And after Vancouver many talked about Plushenko was just a guy who lands jumps and quads, and not even very well done jumps, which is why he lost to maybe the most average Oly champion ever like Lysacek. Some seemed to merge the idea that was what he was even in his prime years of long ago, which is not the case at all. If anything it gave a final impression to some he is a weaker skater than what he was in his heyday. As for embarassing himself I dont know what rock you were living under but the press, atleast in North America, were all over his sour graped campaign and complaints about himself not winning, a quadlesss winner, etc...after the event.
I am not angry about the idea of Plushenko making a comeback. If he does I will feel sorry for him though, and it is something to laugh over really, since his result will be ridiculously bad, and we all remember how he reacted to taking only silver in Vancouver. I find comedy in the idea, not anger, not that I wish ill on him but if he does something that stupid obviously nobody can help him or his sad situation.
Last edited by pangtongfan; 05-23-2011 at 01:12 PM.
jordan and others did't know what would happen until they experienced it. they knew they had passed their prime, but they didn't know what they could get. jordan's prime is 90~93, after his prime, between 95~98, he won another 3 rings. plushy passed his prime since 2003 maybe 2004 (imo), and he got euro gold, world gold and oly gold. he passed his prime far away in 2010, and got euro gold and oly silver. now he just want another try.
I understand someone hope athletes leave with the best ending (i belong to them, sometimes), but lots of athletes don't think so. they prefer to trying their limitation, or jordan would have quit after 1993 (or 1998), kobe 2010, Schumacher 2004, Armstrong 2005, kwan 2003, etc.
i donn't know who want to see MJ at less then his best. but i am sure there are lots of person want to see plushy's failure. before 2010, somebody has said he/she would like to see plushy being kicked ass by chan. at least plushy can satisfy them now
embarassment is a feelling. it exists when people feel it. if you don't feel it, it doesnot exist. i can't say plushy will definited not feel embarassed when he end up with, for example, 13, but that's the risk he must take. Furthermore maybe he is not as clever as usto considering the tarnished legacy and embarassment, because he said in the interview (before 2010 oly) is something like "i have nothing to lose".
and hello pangtongfan, please don't neglect me and please take my interview......which one do you think is more legendary? plushy in 2006 or in 2010?
And after Vancouver, also many talked about Plushenko is a lengend and many become his fans after 2010 (i cannt understand why, but it does happen:sheesh
if you find comedy in the comeback idea, don't feel sorry. just sit down and see what will happen and laugh what should be laughed at
Last edited by wmsb; 05-23-2011 at 02:45 PM.
But how much of that stuff about Plushenko was written because the Olympics were going to be held in Canada. 2014 is in Russia. The American press and networks can write and say all they want but the Olympics wont be in an English speaking country. All that could become totally irrelevent! The Judges were in Canada hearing how horrible and reading how terrible he was every day! The context is going to be all different. There would be much more support for all Russian skaters in 2014.
No it was not the whole press in North America, it was specific journalists and commentators, plus trolls on the boards who disappeared after Olys (most of them) so I dont like to generalize a negative feeling for a whole continent. And I prefer watch further than my nose which fortunately is smaller than Plushenko´s.And dont like the grass they serve me to eat. And You seem to have strange ways to entertain yourself, I have another sense of humor. So yeap I m living under a different rock.
Great!!! I've just found out that if I don't live in North America or I don't care about American press means I live under a rock!!!!
Press outside Nord America wrote nasty things about Lysacek too, does it mean that being OGM is embarassing too?
I bet the same journalists will praise him in Sochi!!!
Last edited by ciocio; 05-23-2011 at 02:28 PM.
What does it mean skate the telephone book?
I understand the sentence means to see Michelle skate no matter what, by why the telephone book?Cause it is a big book?
Plushenko in 2006 of course. He went from being remembered as a dominant and unbeatable skater who could only be challenged and beaten by the great Yagudin, and who won the Olympics by nearly 30 points over a group of good but not legendary skaters, to a skater who whilst many forgetting how far past his physical prime he already was (so just imagine by Sochi, lol) was mostly just someone who could land alot of difficult so so quality jumps on his feet and who lost the Olympic Gold to one of the most unremarkable champions amongst this almost same group of good but not legendary skaters he crushed in Turin. And then creating a whole sour grapes campaign and whining bitterly after his defeat.
So which is more legend, Plushenko after 2006 or after 2010, after 2006 easily.
As if!
Didn't you just say in another thread that we simply can't compare scores from different years due to scoring changes/inflation? I would think that applies here. Lambiel skated like crap in Vancouver but nonetheless came a hair's breadth of winning the bronze with nice fat scores. If Lambiel in his prime (e.g. 2006 Worlds LP) with a healthy groin and relatively intact knees skated at Vancouver I have absolutely no doubt that he would blow the field away, including and especially Lysacek. It's not like Lysacek ever beat Lambiel in his prime at any major events anyways...the only time besides the Olympics Lysacek ever beat Lambiel was at the 2007 Cup of China, the season Lambiel was struggling with groin injuries and eventually retired.
i see, poor old plushy, struggling for one year only to get a lower position in fs history because silver is minus instead of nothing
btw, plushy has been beaten by todd, stojko, weiss, yagudin, brain, sandhu, lysacek.....if including withdraw, he has been beaten by lambiel as well.
Last edited by wmsb; 05-23-2011 at 02:51 PM.
Well many of you seem to think Plushenko in 2010 was the same skater as 2006 and isnt past his prime at all and should return for 2014 (LOL). So with that presumption (IMO totally false but anyway) cleared up lets analyze based upon that. Lambiel at his peak skating cleanly with quads and triple axels would have been blown away by Plushenko skating cleanly with quads in 2006. Yet Plushenko (supposably still in his prime) skating cleanly with quads lost to Lysacek skating cleanly without quads in 2006. So by that clean Lysacek quadless >>>>> clean Lambiel with quads. You do the math, and Lambiel in Vancouver wasnt even attempting triple axels or triple toes on the end of quads or any triples anymore, so his difficulty was at most on par with Lysacek unlike the relative cases I pointed out, it would be like both were doing programs with full triples and no quads basically.
What do you mean by Lambiel skated like crap in Vancouver exactly. He stood up most of his jumps with some steps out or stumbles on a few, and some low landings on a few others. Nobody realistic should have expected any better. Do you really believe for a second Lambiel was capable of landing every jump solidly with flow out. Even in his prime he couldnt skate a clean long program if his life depended on it, he was never a stable or particularly strong jumper. In his short program he skated about the best he could have with a landed (albeit shaky quad) and ended up 6 points back of Lysacek.
Lysacek beat Lambiel in the LP in Turin even not being in the final group. And yeah I know Lambiel had a couple mistakes (like always) but Evan was nowhere near the name or skater he was in later years. Of course a prime Evan will always beat Lambiel.
Last edited by pangtongfan; 05-23-2011 at 02:47 PM.
don't include me by saying this. i think plushenko in 2010 is the shadow of 2006 (and 2006 is shadow of 2004).
but why you use plushy to compare lambiel and lysacek? they are almost the same age and they have competed face to face on world and gpf for several times.
No, that's what you assume that we think.Plushenko didn't disappear in 2006 after Olys and appeared again in 2010, he skated in a lot of shows between 2006 and 2010 and it was clear since 2008-2009 that he wasn't the skater he used to be.
:sheesh:
Why are you rambling about Plushenko? I didn't even mention him in my post and I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but if you think that Plushenko was ANYWHERE near his prime in Vancouver....well,
Anyways, the point of my post was a response to your assertion that "Lambiel at his best would not be good enough to beat someone like Evan in Vancouver anyway, but that is a whole other topic." What I was trying to say was that, no, that's not true, if Lambiel skated like his best (e.g. 2006 Worlds LP with 2 quads with a 4T after the halfway point, a 3A, the only mistake a minor two-foot on his 3Lo and FAR superior artistry) with Vancouver-style scoring, it's pretty obvious he would beat Lysacek in Vancouver like a rug (especially since the judges in Vancouver were scoring Lambiel very generously for what he skated).
And no, to be honest, I didn't expect Lambiel to skate any better with his multiple knee and groin injuries in Vancouver. But I said he skated like crap because it was a pale sad shadow of what Lambiel was actually capable of in his prime, in terms of technical content, choreography and performance-wise. Look, think of it this way: if Lambiel, as you said, with stumbles all over his jumps, no 3As or 3Ts on the end of quads or any triples anymore with a stiff performance and relatively mediocre (for him) choreography came within approximately 10 points of matching Lysacek in Vancouver, don't you think a Lambiel at his best with mostly clean jumps, including 2 quads and 3A, and better choreography and performance would have any trouble making up those 10 points?
I'm kind of taking liberties with an expression used for very good actors, especially those with great voices. The original idiom might be applied to someone like Richard Burton (whose voice could make you cry just from its beauty alone)--"I'd pay to watch him read the telephone book." Not because the telephone book is big, but because it's very dry facts. So your example of watching Michelle skate no matter what (or Browning, for Tonichelle....) is apt.What does it mean skate the telephone book?
I understand the sentence means to see Michelle skate no matter what, by why the telephone book?Cause it is a big book?
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