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Thread: Plushenko wants to become a legend of figure skating

  1. #31
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Joe, I sympathize with your point of view! Curry is certainly the peak of skating, virtually the father of modern men's skating. To watch his Olympic long program from 1976 is to see a new world begin. But I think there's room in the Hall of Legends for other skaters, just as there are other legendary American presidents after George Washington. In fact, before Curry, skaters like Dick Button, Gillis Grafstrom, and Axel Paulsen were legendary. Why not some legendary skaters after Curry, too? None of this diminishes his luster.
    I get your points, Olympia. It may be the concept of what a legend is that we differ on. In your way of thinking there is Sonia Henie who popularized figure skating to the whole world. It no longer was a European Sport but a glamorous form of entertainment enjoyed by all. Perhaps Button could be listed a legendary. He certainly raised the bar on jumping for all to go after. His spins were also first class in that era. Convoluted positions in Spinning came much later. And both these early skaters had to face climate problems, although Sonia brought her shows into Arenas on frozen pipes. Also notewrorthy for future Arena competitions. I'm not aware of Grafstrom, but Paulsen did 'invent' the Axel jump and other jump inventors contributed much to figure skating. Skippy Baxter brought the first Quad to skating. Would that be considered Legendary?

    In singling out Curry as a Legend, I go with the notion that music plays a huge role in the sport as well as in shows, and he was exemplary. This thead for me is more about listing personal favorites as being legendary. If Jumps are the cornerstone of figure skating, I would agree about Plushenko being a legend.

    btw. Look up the difference between the noun Legend and the adjective Legendary. The semantics of it all.

  2. #32
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    Plushy is already a legend, by far the most popular skater on Chinese skating forums. But he need to be really careful otherwise he will also be known as being a legend of whining.

    Saw him amidst the crowd at WC2011 Moscow, he appears to have clapped for no one except young Artur (mini plushy), super arrogant as usual. While there are those who love his attitude, but I was so happy when young Patrick thrashed his record right in front of him. Patrick proved himself there and did Canada proud. Especially when the official guide book actually called him a 'brat' with a 'loose tongue' (Russian/English, bilingual guidebook). I found this shocking but hilarious! It was so unPC, yet sort of truthful and so *Russian*

    I look forward to these 2 over the next few years with great interest. If you are arrogant, you better prove yourself when it matters, and take it like a man when things does not quite work out!
    Last edited by os168; 05-10-2011 at 10:36 AM.

  3. #33
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    Have some of you seen him skate lately? He is as amazing as ever. His quads are just as good as anything they are doing now, he needs better choreography.

    His ego is big for a reason, he is a legend.

  4. #34
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Joesitz;568991]I'm not aware of Grafstrom...['quote]

    Gillis Srafstrom won three consecutive Olympic gold medals in the 1920s. He tried for a fourth in 1932 at age 39, but had top settle for silver in a controversial decision. (So you see there's hope for Plushenko in Sochi after all. )

    Skippy Baxter brought the first Quad to skating.
    I think you mean the first triple Salchow.

    btw. Look up the difference between the noun Legend and the adjective Legendary. The semantics of it all.
    A legend is a story of doubtful authority that grows into something glorious by retelling and embellishing over the centuries.

    By the year 3000 Michelle Kwan will be a legend -- wasn't it she who defeated the Intergalactic Alien Invasion of 2503 by skating her etherial Lyra Angelica program, causing the aliens to lay down their anti-photon lasers to watch in rapt enthrallment?

  5. #35
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    By the year 3000 Michelle Kwan will be a legend -- wasn't it she who defeated the Intergalactic Alien Invasion of 2503 by skating her etherial Lyra Angelica program, causing the aliens to lay down their anti-photon lasers to watch in rapt enthrallment?
    STAR WARS episode 10 - just as lame as the prequils!

  6. #36
    Like subtlety in ice dancing Serious Business's Avatar
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    As everybody else said, Plushy is already a legend and I think he knows it, too. The actual quote from him is, "also, I want to become a legend of figure skating which took the podium at four Olympic Games." That's a very specific kind of legendhood he's going for: a 4 time Olympic medalist in figure skating. I think that's perfectly doable for him. While I don't think he'll suddenly develop the transitions and intricate footwork the COP looks for, he still has the jumps. And if he keeps and lands enough of them in Sochi, he has a shot at the podium. And if he gets selected for the team competition, that's a guaranteed medal right there as I don't see how Russia could avoid the podium on that one.

  7. #37
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    ^^^^ I think he may just do it. Unlike 2009, when he assumed he would just show up to show what men's skating was and get an automatic gold medal, this time he has a specific goal and is going to work for it. This a great motivation with his ego to go for the record nobody has had and unlikely to ever have. It's now or never with the stars so aligned. Once he accomplishes this, he can raise his number 1 finger at everybody: Take that, all you young punks. Nobody is going to be a legend like King Plushy. Never!

  8. #38
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    ^how do you know what he assumed? I assume you assumed what he must have assumed. his previous season with two golds and one silver as just show up, after 3 years rust, is a stretch i think.
    You said someting nice in worlds discussion, that i noted down the other day, that instead of the self appointed armchair judges here and there ,you trust more the opinion of experienced international judges, but I guess it only applied to Worlds 2011 pcs, previous years international judges were giving undeserved pcs all over.

  9. #39
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    [QUOTE=Mathman;569000]
    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I'm not aware of Grafstrom...['quote]

    By the year 3000 Michelle Kwan will be a legend -- wasn't it she who defeated the Intergalactic Alien Invasion of 2503 by skating her etherial Lyra Angelica program, causing the aliens to lay down their anti-photon lasers to watch in rapt enthrallment?
    Didn't I tell you that her best years lie ahead of her? This is the obvious successor to Ping-Pong Diplomacy....Skating Diplomacy.

  10. #40
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    Seniorita, you are making so many assumptions too. I have always questioned Joubert's and Plushenko's PCS, which Plushenko himself pointed out as lacking before the Olympics 2010. However, I leave possibilities of factors I can't see via videos that impress the judges, who are experts and live audience. I assume Joubert must have something really special that may not come across to me but eveidently touch many people who watch him perform. As for my assumption of Plushenko's assumption, that's gathered from his words and actions. He had not skated for a few years, then came out for just two late season competitions before the Olympics. His program components at the Nationals were non existent besides the jumps, improved for Euro, and more improved for the Olympics. His unhappiness with his Olympics Silver is known, so I am not the only one to assume that he assumed he deserved the Olympic Gold. I've never questioned his gold in his Nationals and at Euro. I never question his Olympic silver either, but he won it with a little help even though he didn't bring his best himself.

    Plushenko is a super talent, with great accomplishments nobody can deny. That doesn't mean I have to say nice things about everything he does. I only stick with skating BTW. It's known he did not bother much with CoP. He even lost SA to Sandhu due to Zayaking. His Olympic program wasn't optimally designed, something he should have paid much more attention to if he felt the competition actually required such consideration.

    As for his Sochi chances, the factors against him are the new young talents and his age. But I hope he will help to dispell agism, like Shen/Zhao did. The factors for him are his reputation/legend status, the location, and what I have brought up that are different from his 2010 Olympic preparation, i.e. his serious intention, determination, and willingness to work towards the goals, as shown by his starting early ahead of the 2014 Olympics and even the 2011/12 season, and the attention paid to preparing the programs. These, with his natural talents, jumping ability, and the winner's attitude which some may call arrogance, he is a force not to be taken lightly.

    I admired Plushenko greatly but preferred Yagudin at their era. Today, I think he needs to update his skating to compete for the results he desires.

    I am calling it as I see it. It doesn't have to meet your approval or be always positive about the great Plushenko. I'm just as entitled to my opinions as you are to yours.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Plushy is already a legend, by far the most popular skater on Chinese skating forums. But he need to be really careful otherwise he will also be known as being a legend of whining.

    Saw him amidst the crowd at WC2011 Moscow, he appears to have clapped for no one except young Artur (mini plushy), super arrogant as usual. While there are those who love his attitude, but I was so happy when young Patrick thrashed his record right in front of him. Patrick proved himself there and did Canada proud.
    he couldn't thrash Plushenko record, because last year after Olympics, point system for quads, spins, fw was changed again.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by bestskate8 View Post
    he couldn't thrash Plushenko record, because last year after Olympics, point system for quads, spins, fw was changed again.
    After the Olympics, an entire element, which happened to be Chan's specialty, was taken out of the SP. The public is not into such nitty gritty. But it's good for the sport to have records to smash, something people understand. Big numbers too. In that sense, CoP beat 6.0 for the sport's publicity.

  13. #43
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    SkateFiguring you certainly dont need my approval, it is just a discussion here.
    he lost to Sandu in gpf 2004 because of zayak, not SA by the way. That was when CoP was first introduced to gp. Ok he did an Oda then before Oda.
    I agree he didnt fully adapt to CoP and judges made sure to give him record scores(he had the top 7 scores out of 10 up until 2006), so why bother?
    As for the rest he is not the first to comeback last minute, and I can name skaters who came back only for one competion as worlds or olys and did not participate in 3(not 2) a gp, Euros and Nationals before Olys. So i dont know why Eveni is such a surprise of a late comeback that took it superficially, some were more late.
    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post

    Saw him amidst the crowd at WC2011 Moscow, he appears to have clapped for no one except young Artur (mini plushy), super arrogant as usual.
    Oh mum, I could have been in Matlock tv series. I was sure I have seen vids were he stood up for Kozu and Amodio And clapped Oda and Dai but I also found this. Do you reconize this music?? i think it was not Arturs. Records are made to be broken and be clapped.

    I only searched cause why you would bother watch Plushenko (and write about it) at worlds over this crowd the whole 4 days to see who he claps or not? Unless you were the man behind him.
    Last edited by seniorita; 05-10-2011 at 03:28 PM. Reason: forgot the links

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    I agree he didnt fully adapt to CoP and judges made sure to give him record scores(he had the top 7 scores out of 10 up until 2006), so why bother?
    Because the judges are adapting to CoP. I think Plushenko is aware of this.

    As for the rest he is not the first to comeback last minute, and I can name skaters who came back only for one competion as worlds or olys and did not participate in 3(not 2) a gp, Euros and Nationals before Olys. So i dont know why Eveni is such a surprise of a late comeback that took it superficially, some were more late.
    It's all their free choices, nothing wrong in itself. It's a matter of if it worked out for them. At the Olympics, it didn't work out for any of them as far as their goals were concerned. Plushenko did the best with a Silver but that was not that what he came for. However, that Silver has today become an impetus for a 4th Olympics, the goal being to be a four times Olympics medalist, which he couldn't be without the 2010 Silver.

    This year, the Olympic gold medalists in Ladies and Ice Dance both debuted at Worlds and won Silver. It will have to do.

  15. #45
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    Plushenko has talked about transitions but I don't know what he means. At the Olympics his transitions were not the obvious ones. Instead of spinning and doing step sequences after five jumps will he be like nearly everyone else in skating and do five jumps starting at the halfway point. Gachinski also coached by Mishin was the only person in the top 10 not to do five jumps after the halfway point. It worked out for him as he made the podium but that is not a strategy that holds up as was demonstrated by what happened at the Olympics to Plushenko. Because of mistakes at Russian nationals he HAD to do a 3A after the halfway point and he did it fine.

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