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Thread: Plushenko wants to become a legend of figure skating

  1. #61
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    LOL he couldnt even beat Lysacek in Vancouver at 27 and he thinks he can compete with Chan, the up coming Japanese, and the rest at 31 on a more beat up body. Hilarious. If he does make it to Sochi I predict an 11th place finish. And to beat Chan he would need to skate better than he did in Vancouver and have Chan fall 11 times.

    That said he is of course already a legend. He is best to stay retired rather than returning as a has been and chip away at that legend. He was already a shadow of his old self in Vancouver despite nearly winning, but Sochi would be far worse.
    Never say never, pangtongfan. Who knows? You must have annoyed the skate gods with that kind of attitude because Miki Ando just won a second World title despite your boasts. Kim made a huge mistake in SP and lost, so who knows, a multi-world champ Patrick can falter in Sochi . Ice is slippery, as they say.

  2. #62
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    LOL he couldnt even beat Lysacek in Vancouver...
    A lot of people couldn't beat Lysacek in Vancouver. Patrick Chan couldn't. Takahashi couldn't. Lambiel couldn't. Weir, Oda, Kozuka -- not even close. Abbott, Brezina, Amodio, Joubert? Forty points back.

    I think Lysacek ought to come back and try to become the first man in fifty years to win back to back golds.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    Never say never, pangtongfan. Who knows? You must have annoyed the skate gods with that kind of attitude because Miki Ando just won a second World title despite your boasts. Kim made a huge mistake in SP and lost, so who knows, a multi-world champ Patrick can falter in Sochi . Ice is slippery, as they say.
    ptf is far from being a Patrick fan, so please don't say that about Patrick

    As for annoying the skate god, it's not only ptf, there were people who applauded when Miki Ando missed a jump because it would mean his/her favourite would win, or some who wished Patrick would fall several times.

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    People said the same thing about Plushenko returning in 2009! "Oh all the young people will beat him! They all know COP and he's ignorant!" He beat all but the reigning world champion! He beat the 2006 world champion and the 2007 world champion. Some are saying Chan will be world champion 2011, 2012, 2013 and that's all locked up and 2014 Olympics will be a Chan coronation. It seems Plushenko wants to medal. If Plushenko had competed in 2009 and been in the last group in Vancouver I doubt any of the judges who gave him fives in trans in the SP would have given him fives. Judges ranked him lower than Van Der Perren and Weir because the default score for no transitions SP's were around 6 and not fives!!

  5. #65
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    LOL he couldnt even beat Lysacek in Vancouver at 27 and he thinks he can compete with Chan, the up coming Japanese, and the rest at 31 on a more beat up body. Hilarious. If he does make it to Sochi I predict an 11th place finish. And to beat Chan he would need to skate better than he did in Vancouver and have Chan fall 11 times.
    I m sure Plu knows what it is means to be the frontrunner for gold for a whole Quad till Olys. And while I ve noticed skatin fans we think skaters are kinda idiots of their sport,I m pretty sure Plu (and the rest) know that Chan is unbeatable if he skates clean and they need to step up. That doesnt mean everyone will go home and let him skate alone at Sochi. Kozuka btw hit big scores this season. Yes 31 is old but he is not the first to do so, frankly the exact same peope were saying about Vancouver, that he is too old at 27 and now Joub, Verner and Daisuke expressed the same will and they will be above 27also in Sochi .
    But I m not that thrilled he wants to compete anyway, healthywise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    Never say never, pangtongfan. Who knows? You must have annoyed the skate gods with that kind of attitude because Miki Ando just won a second World title despite your boasts. Kim made a huge mistake in SP and lost, so who knows, a multi-world champ Patrick can falter in Sochi . Ice is slippery, as they say.
    Miki did not win the World title. She was gifted it by the judges as a pity gift for what happened in Japan. BOP's breakdown of how the ladies event SHOULD have been scored was actually right on (and I usually dont agree with him on anything). 4th overall would have been the correct place for her under accurate scoring. If someone like Phaneuf for instance had done Miki's skates she probably would have finished about 9th.

    So yes if Russia is bombed or something just before Sochi Olympics then maybe Plushenko would have a chance. Otherwise no.

  7. #67
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    ^ If Phaneuf had skated like Yuna where would she have placed?

    So yes if Russia is bombed or something just before Sochi Olympics ..
    She was gifted it by the judges as a pity gift for what happened in Japan.
    Maybe if yourself was bombed or something->>how does this sound?
    So much for all the talks here about musical choices, artistry, that all of us need to be cultural Einsteins and sensitive as daizies to appreciate this sport, I find these comments completely obnoxious not to say a worse word.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I thinkl he might be cool with that. Joining Gillis Grafstrom as the only two men to medal in four Olympics.
    The big difference is though that Grafstrom had 3 gold medals plus one silver which I see as imposible for Plushenko to accomplish even with a medal given to him in Sochi. But I definetely agree that Plushenko is a skating legend already. And he is the most decorated Russian male singles skater.
    Last edited by Jaana; 05-11-2011 at 06:03 AM.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    No one on this thread is going to state what exactly determines a legend? The term, often used in Theatre, seems to consider certain Actors as legends which I believe means his work in Plays and Cinema will live the test of time. Can anyone act better than Brando as the Don in The Godfather? or in several other parts, like Streetcar? If we put Evgeni in that position, what is it that he has done that no other skater can not do? or has not done? Once we ascertain that he is truly unique, and not before I consider other skaters, e.g., Alexi Yagudin et al, can I give my blessing to the term Legend.

    So, What exactly is it that sets him apart from other skaters?

  10. #70
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    No one on this thread is going to state what exactly determines a legend? The term, often used in Theatre, seems to consider certain Actors as legends which I believe means his work in Plays and Cinema will live the test of time. Can anyone act better than Brando as the Don in The Godfather? or in several other parts, like Streetcar? If we put Evgeni in that position, what is it that he has done that no other skater can not do? or has not done? Once we ascertain that he is truly unique, and not before I consider other skaters, e.g., Alexi Yagudin et al, can I give my blessing to the term Legend.

    So, What exactly is it that sets him apart from other skaters?
    For starters his longevity combined with his record makes him unique in this or any other era.
    Plushy is one of the greatest jumpers in history. Kevin V has been around for a while and has been known to land some pretty good jumps. But what has he ever won?

    Plushy has been influential and after sitting out for three years came back back against all odds and won a third Olympic medal skating on a bad leg.

    The quad has suddenly not only become more fashionable but basically a necessity in Men's skating.

    Was that because of Joubert, Kevin or Dai?

    I don't think so and when a skater comes out of a long retirement and forces the sport to reevaluate itself that speaks volumes about his influence.

    What hasn't been mentioned is that at 15 Plushy almost skated at the 1998 Olympics. Only a technicality prevented that when Russia lost it's third spot.

    Kwan dominated Ladies skating for a decade and not many Americans question her "legend" status. Who is the last skater to be such a dominant force in Men's skating?

    Do we have to go back to Dick Button? Is he not a skating legend? His career was not nearly as long as Plushy's.

    I dunno, I am not the biggest Plushy fan but have no problem thinking of him as a legendary skater and one of the all-time greats.

    Let's not forget the book is not closed on Plushy's career yet. Those who think he won't make it to Sochi or if he does that he will embarrass himself are underestimating him.

    Champions need more than skill, they need determination and heart. And pride.

    That is Plushenko, already a skating legend and still looking for new challenges.

    Aside from all of that that the struggling sport of CoP skating needs him badly.
    Last edited by janetfan; 05-11-2011 at 08:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Miki did not win the World title. She was gifted it by the judges as a pity gift for what happened in Japan.
    Ah,.. that is what happened. I completely forgot about the earthquake in Moscow. But since you said it was just me...

  12. #72
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    ^^^
    Are you saying Yagudin didn't have determination and heart? We'll agree to disagree. I don't see anything you wrote that would not describe Dick Button as a Legend. Most fans do not go back that far. I used to ascertain that the present fans of figure skating are like those Italian people in a small town that want the Pope to give them a Saint. The tendency is to demand we use the term Legend and yes, also Diva because they are used in other showbiz provinces.

    I want something Unique from a skater to call that skater a Legend. I also think the description is tossed around as a fun thing. It really isn't necessary to award a skater as a Legend - absolutely nothing official about it. There is, I believe, an ISU Hall of Fame which if he isn't already inducted into it, I think he should be. I see no official naming of legends that is not covered in the Hall of Fame.

    If we are to give credence to the term Legend, I could name many as far back as Button that were unique. He caused the official European Championships to limit their entrants to Europeans only. That was a big change not seen in other Sports.

  13. #73
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    No one on this thread is going to state what exactly determines a legend? The term, often used in Theatre, seems to consider certain Actors as legends which I believe means his work in Plays and Cinema will live the test of time. Can anyone act better than Brando as the Don in The Godfather? or in several other parts, like Streetcar? If we put Evgeni in that position, what is it that he has done that no other skater can not do? or has not done? Once we ascertain that he is truly unique, and not before I consider other skaters, e.g., Alexi Yagudin et al, can I give my blessing to the term Legend.


    No he didnt say Yagudin had no determination nor heart, but the one doesnt exclude the other. As you said we could name many skaters as back to Dick Button as legends, Yagudin also. Why it is has to be only one? This I dont understand.
    Brando did the best god father ever, but maybe in the future there will be an actor who would have an equal or better performance of Godfather, does that take something away from Brando's status?

    So, What exactly is it that sets him apart from other skaters?
    ^The mullet?
    His dominance. Plushenko entered the competitions at 15 and stayed as podium gold contender for all his career. If we consider figure skating a sport-and with short term changes of guard- this is an accoplishment that so far no other skater has managed to do. Maybe in the future they will, Chan might will. But that doesnt change history.
    Seriously, I can reverse the question, do you find he is one more skater of the pack for the last 15 years? If so why we discuss about his legend status now instead of Li -> () ?

  14. #74
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    I never liked Marlon Brando in the Godfather because of those silly and distracting wads of cotton he put in his cheeks. Every time he came on the screen all I could think of was, why does Marlon Brando have wads of cotton stuck in his cheeks? Would the real Don Corleone stick cotton in his cheeks?

  15. #75
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    ^^^
    Are you saying Yagudin didn't have determination and heart? We'll agree to disagree. I don't see anything you wrote that would not describe Dick Button as a Legend. Most fans do not go back that far. I used to ascertain that the present fans of figure skating are like those Italian people in a small town that want the Pope to give them a Saint. The tendency is to demand we use the term Legend and yes, also Diva because they are used in other showbiz provinces.

    I want something Unique from a skater to call that skater a Legend. I also think the description is tossed around as a fun thing. It really isn't necessary to award a skater as a Legend - absolutely nothing official about it. There is, I believe, an ISU Hall of Fame which if he isn't already inducted into it, I think he should be. I see no official naming of legends that is not covered in the Hall of Fame.

    If we are to give credence to the term Legend, I could name many as far back as Button that were unique. He caused the official European Championships to limit their entrants to Europeans only. That was a big change not seen in other Sports.
    Button changed the sport forever.
    John Curry, one of my all-time favorites accomplished more as a pro skater than as a competitive skater.

    Had Toller been better at figures it is doubtful if Curry would have ever beaten him since Toller was the most innovative free skater of his era and beat Curry several times in the free skate.

    Is Kristi a legend? Her career is very similar to Curry. A graceful skater who eked out a few competitive titles and then had a terrific pro career.

    Legends don't have to conform only to your standards. The thoughts and feelings of others are just as important.

    It's fine if you think Curry is the only legend. As a competitive skater his record can't touch Plusy nor can his longevity as a dominat COMPETITIVE skater.

    You are sounding like one of the fans you never fail to criticize, the fan who watches skating for his "art fix."

    That is what Curry fans enjoyed so much about his skating. He was an artist but did nothing as far as jumps to take the sport forward.

    Let's not forget how ploitical skating is. Toller was a rebel and Curry had the more influential coaches which helped him in figures and the free skating scores.

    If as you claim, a skater can only become a legend by satisfying our need for art then I hope you will be more accepting of others who share your views but happen to like other skaters.
    Last edited by janetfan; 05-11-2011 at 09:19 AM.

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