Plushenko wants to become a legend of figure skating

seniorita · May 11, 2011

Mathman the russian wonderbabies will compete in senior grand prix next season

No worlds or Euros but it will be still interesting to see them next to the big names.
What does it mean they want to throw a bone to Usa ladies before Sochi?
And if is that so, why not Mirai bone?

gmyers · May 11, 2011

Maybe Ksenia Makarova will do some lutz and flips jump next season

gmyers · May 11, 2011

evangeline said:
You're not the only one...it's a bit sad when a world medallist in 2011 is doing tech content that even Jill Trenary could seriously compete against. :disapp:

If Carolina is handed a world title with the tech content she displayed at Moscow, heads will roll! (ok, maybe just my head...from mortification, that is). But I'm sure at least one of Kim or Asada will get their acts together by next season to prevent this.

I just looked and Trenary doubled her flip and did a single axel 3s step out

janetfan · May 11, 2011

gmyers said:
I just looked and Trenary doubled her flip and did a single axel 3s step out

Try this out for size.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1oXOuqZymw&feature=related

Krislite · May 11, 2011

Hernando said:
Try this out for size.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1oXOuqZymw&feature=related

This is even better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKGasODrAcU&feature=related. (Also precedes the one you posted by two years).

Krislite · May 11, 2011

gmyers said:
I just looked and Trenary doubled her flip and did a single axel 3s step out

Trenary's LP at Worlds 1990 included a 3F, 3T+2T, 1A+3S, 3S, 3T. (She also did a 2A and 2F, which was a double on purpose.) Kostner did a 3F, 2A+3T, 3L, 3S+2T+2T, 3S--only slightly harder than Trenary's layout, because of the 3L. But Trenary did a unique and difficult one-foot Axel + 3Salchow combo, which is similar in difficulty to Kostner's 2A+3T.

janetfan · May 11, 2011

I was trying to stay in the 90's but yes I agree.

Midori's 1990 Worlds LP was also outstanding.

Sometimes I wonder who is the greatest Lady skater never to win the OGM.

Was it Janet, Midori or Michelle? :think:

Come to think of it those three were better skaters than the girls who won the OGM and all three are skating legends.

evangeline · May 11, 2011

gmyers said:
I just looked and Trenary doubled her flip and did a single axel 3s step out

Nah, watch her 1990 LP again. I know it's difficult to compare the construction of 6.0 vs CoP jumping passes, but Trenary had a single 3F as her most difficult jumping pass with only 3Ts and 3Ss as her other triples. Admittedly, Kostner still has a small edge as she also has the 3Lo but you have to admit that Trenary's jump content would still have been competitive with Kostner, even if Kostner edges her out overall. And you should also keep in mind that Trenary's jump content back in 1990 was considered outdated and very 80s even then.

ETA: Thanks, Krislite!

gmyers · May 11, 2011

I am still not sure if Trenary really would have been that competitive with Kostner. I think Kostner winning a medal with that jump content is bad. At least she did more triples than Laura Lepisto did last year though! Leonova on jumps would have been better but then you have PCS and spin and step values. The people at the top have to be good and stretch themselves. Ando did not and if she had and failed then maybe Kim with her 3lz/3t would have won or maybe Ando would have successfully done a 3lz/3loop.

janetfan · May 11, 2011

gmyers said:
I am still not sure if Trenary really would have been that competitive with Kostner..

It would have been an interesting match up behind the scenes as Carlo Fassi and Speedy would have been busy little bees arranging a satisfactory result.

evangeline · May 11, 2011

gmyers said:
I am still not sure if Trenary really would have been that competitive with Kostner. I think Kostner winning a medal with that jump content is bad. At least she did more triples than Laura Lepisto did last year though! Leonova on jumps would have been better but then you have PCS and spin and step values. The people at the top have to be good and stretch themselves. Ando did not and if she had and failed then maybe Kim with her 3lz/3t would have won or maybe Ando would have successfully done a 3lz/3loop.

To be honest, I would've placed Trenary below Kostner just for the bizarro choreography and terrible, terrible music edits she had in her 1990 LP, but there's still nonetheless a basis for comparison in terms of jump content, no? Not to mention, Trenary had speed, good SS and Carlo Fassi by her side....

Ugh, I'd forgotten about Lepisto's 3-triple LP...but if I recall correctly, even Lepisto placed something like 6th or 7th in the LP last year, even if she squeeked out the bronze overall.

pangtongfan · May 11, 2011

Mathman said:
I think that all of the skaters you mentioned, Kim, Asada, Ando, Rochette, Lepisto, are pretty much done. I don't think Leonova will be a force, and the younger Russians are too young. I am not sure how much improvement to expect from Murakami and Nagasu.

I might be wrong, but I can see the ISU "wanting" to throw the U.S.A. a bone next year, getting it out of the way in time for the lead-up to Sochi. I can also see them elevating Kostner as a retirement gift for Cinquanta.

Kostner and Czisny are older than Kim, Asada, and Ando. Why on earth would those latter three be done and Kostner and Czisny still be rolling strong. Kim might be done if she doesnt get motivated, I would think the embarassment of stumbling all around and losing Worlds to Miki freaking Ando would be enough to get serious again, but she has already indicated she is skipping the grand prix next season so apparently not. Asada and Ando though still seem very motivated and Asada was skating pretty well before Worlds and was probably hurt by the delay.

The Russians will have 3 spots in all coming years probably so Leonova can still fight for a spot on the team, as can Makarova. Sotnikova is the only sure thing really. Elizaveta and the others still have alot of work to do.

Lepisto is younger than Kostner and Czisny too. I dont see why she would be finished if she gets healthy and motivated to return.

And Murakami and Nakano should have no problems passing Kostner and Czisny at this point unless they get injured and become too unmotivated like Nagasu was this year.

I am sorry but the last thing I can imagine is a World title for Kostner and Czisny in the coming years. Then again you were obviously right on them wanting to give a Japanese the gold as compensation for recent events, which I didnt buy into when you first suggested it, so who knows.

Krislite · May 12, 2011

pangtongfan said:
Kostner and Czisny are older than Kim, Asada, and Ando. Why on earth would those latter three be done and Kostner and Czisny still be rolling strong. Kim might be done if she doesnt get motivated, I would think the embarassment of stumbling all around and losing Worlds to Miki freaking Ando would be enough to get serious again, but she has already indicated she is skipping the grand prix next season so apparently not. Asada and Ando though still seem very motivated and Asada was skating pretty well before Worlds and was probably hurt by the delay.

The Russians will have 3 spots in all coming years probably so Leonova can still fight for a spot on the team, as can Makarova. Sotnikova is the only sure thing really. Elizaveta and the others still have alot of work to do.

Lepisto is younger than Kostner and Czisny too. I dont see why she would be finished if she gets healthy and motivated to return.

And Murakami and Nakano should have no problems passing Kostner and Czisny at this point unless they get injured and become too unmotivated like Nagasu was this year.

I am sorry but the last thing I can imagine is a World title for Kostner and Czisny in the coming years. Then again you were obviously right on them wanting to give a Japanese the gold as compensation for recent events, which I didnt buy into when you first suggested it, so who knows.

2012 is probably Kostner and Czisny's last chance at a World title. 2013 will be too heavily stacked, especially with the promising juniors from Russia, Japan and the US who will likely all be there.

As for Kim, she suggested a likely 4CC appearance next season. (4CC will be in Colorado Springs, very close to her training base in LA.) Coming from her that's almost a 100% confirmation, provided she decides to compete. Not sure if it'll be enough, but I think it will help.

pangtongfan · May 12, 2011

Czisny winning a World title would require the splattiest ladies Worlds as history, something that would make this years dismal ladies event look like a barnburner. Dont get me wrong though, I love Czisny's skating and much prefer it to Ando's and some of the others who regularly beat her. I just dont think the judges consider her in that highly to reward her with something like that at all. She also doesnt get the GOE on her jumps to do it, or even get that high of PCS compared to the very top skaters probably due to her lack of speed and power (relatively). They might let her win a bronze if she skates perfect and outstandingly and others screw up (which almost happened this year but for her own mistake).

Mathman · May 12, 2011

seniorita said:
What does it mean they want to throw a bone to Usa ladies before Sochi?

To throw someone a bone means to give them a small reward as an encouragement, even though they didn't really do much to deserve it.

I may be living in the past, but I think the ISU might want to do some little thing in to try to slow the slide of figure skating in the United States into oblivion. Mr. Cinquanta might even be nostalgic about the days when the United States sent him a $5 million check every year. Next year would be a good time to do it, since it wouldn't interfere with whatever the ISU's plans are for Sochi.

pangtonfan said:
Kostner and Czisny are older than Kim, Asada, and Ando. Why on earth would those latter three be done and Kostner and Czisny still be rolling strong.

Reserving the right to be wrong...I think Kim does not want to skate any more. I think Asada will never skate well again. I think Ando will take a year off.

I think Alissa can be competitive with who's left. She is comparable to Lepisto and Korpi, better than Leonova. Nagasu can be hot or cold, Murakami has weaknesses as well as strengths.

As for Kostner, she won the bronze medal with no jumps. Next year, assuming she is injury-free from the get-go, she will be doing Lutzes and harder combinations again. Why wouldn't she be in the mix? Maybe the ISU will give her something as a retirement gift for Cinquanta.

janetfan · May 12, 2011

Mathman said:
Reserving the right to be wrong.... I think Asada will never skate well again.

.

By "skate well" can I assume you meant "jump well" ?

I think Mao needs another season before I would say that.

Rochette improved alot at the end of her career and we just saw Alissa have her best season ever. Miki came back from an average season last year to reclaim the WC.

Give Mr Sato a chance. If Mao still wants it there is a chance she can fix her lutz and regain her jump consistency.

The rest of her skating is so beautiful it takes my breath away.

Joesitz (RIP) · May 12, 2011

We're back to Ladies - not surprising. Some of those anticipated retiring Ladies may just want to be an Olympian again. If any of the fans have ever skated or even been in competion in any Sport, to be an Olympian and march in that opening parade is in itself a reward. But you have to have been a competitor to understand that.

If any of the now 'old timers' drop out of the next two Worlds, more than likely, they will not be going to 2014 Olympics.

Given that ALL the Ladies skate their BEST in Sochi, I believe it will be Sotnikova as the golden girl.

In all competitions, there is always a battle between the Jumping Skater and the Musical Skater. Sotnikova wins on both talents.

Mathman · May 12, 2011

Hernando said:
The rest of her skating is so beautiful it takes my breath away.

I wish her every happiness. I am concerned for her health.

As for jumps, one problem that Mao will continue to face (besides the Lutz) is that she is at the mercy of the technical specialist on her triple Axel. Her technique is to reach down with her toe pick at less than three complete revolutions. Then she kind of pivots on her pick while completing the extra half turn. Sometime (like at worlds) she gets called for a downgrade. Other tech specialists give her more leeway and apparently go by when her foot is actually supporting her weight, rather than just touching down with her toe. In this case she might just get a < instead of a <<. This nullifies her big advantage over everyone else on the tech side.

On the PCS side, I agree. She is exquisite and deserves top marks.

Olympia · May 12, 2011

Hernando said:
I was trying to stay in the 90's but yes I agree.

Midori's 1990 Worlds LP was also outstanding.

Sometimes I wonder who is the greatest Lady skater never to win the OGM.

Was it Janet, Midori or Michelle? :think:

Come to think of it those three were better skaters than the girls who won the OGM and all three are skating legends.

Once I get the list down to those three, I never want to narrow it down further.

Of course I agree with you about Mao Asada too: she's still got potential for the future, and her skating takes my breath away.

let`s talk · May 12, 2011

Plush thread is always a jewel.

That's legendary.

Plushenko wants to become a legend of figure skating

seniorita

gmyers

gmyers

janetfan

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Krislite

Krislite

janetfan

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evangeline

gmyers

janetfan

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evangeline

pangtongfan

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Krislite

pangtongfan

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Mathman

janetfan

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Joesitz (RIP)

Mathman

Olympia

let`s talk

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