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Thread: Ashley Wagner and Caroline Zhang ?

  1. #31
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    The mention of Suzuki above, and I might add Abbott as another late bloomer, is reason enough not to write off Ashley just yet.

    I'm less hopeful about Caroline because her technical problems seem to be more intractable but also because it doesn't look as though she's in a good place mentally.

    I hope they both have productive summers and come back with fight and good programs.
    Another reason not to write off Ashley is how unpredictable the other U.S. women are at the moment. You just can't know for sure that the top five from last season's nationals will be top five at this season's. At this point, I'd bet on a few other girls above Ashley but it's conceivable that she will step up to the plate next season while others fade or falter when it counts most.

    At this point, though, I don't see hear as world podium material or even potential at all. She has too many flaws and not enough wow. But we'll see. As you said, there are such things as late bloomers and she is certainly a very watchable skater.
    Last edited by Layfan; 05-17-2011 at 05:44 PM.

  2. #32
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    At this point, I'd bet on a few other girls above Ashley but it's conceivable that she will step up to the plate next season while others fade or falter when it counts most.
    I suppose it IS, in theory...but Wagner is usually the one sabotaging herself and enabling her competitors to take advantage of the situation. If Wagner had not fallen in her 2010 Nats SP, she would have gone to the Olympics, not Nagasu- even if they skated the same. If Wagner had not blown the SP AGAIN this year, she would have been right in the mix- but she wasn't. The main thing getting in the way of Wagner right now, despite all her flaws, is Wagner.

  3. #33
    Like subtlety in ice dancing Serious Business's Avatar
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    Ashley has some problems with her basics, too. Very labored stroking. She obviously has many other talents, but it hasn't added up to a winning package yet and it may never.

  4. #34
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    One big difference between Ashley and Caroline is that Ashley will likely get 2 GP assignments next season while Caroline will likely get none (does not meet minimum score so only hope is SA which will likely go to someone else, maybe Ashley if she only gets 1 other assignment). I don't think Mama Zhang will like Caroline having to qualify for nationals the old-fashioned way so I assume after this season Caroline calls it quits.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Suzuki will never be a top skater at the World level so the Japanese really dont have any reason to invest in her. She was a nice underdog story, making the Olympics and having her best ever success in her mid 20s, but that is the end of the story me thinks.
    Sort of like the Japanese version of Alissa, when you think of it. Which is why I'd like to see Alissa compete in Sochi if we have 3 spots for ladies, even if she does finish 8th or so like Akiko did last season.

  6. #36
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    Akiko Suzuki is 26 years old. She was 8th at the Olympics and 11th at Worlds 2010.

    Alissa will be 27 in 2014. As of this year, she has competed at 10 US Senior Ladies Championships---every year since 2002. I'm not sure she will continue on as far as Sochi.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    I don't think Mama Zhang will like Caroline having to qualify for nationals the old-fashioned way so I assume after this season Caroline calls it quits.
    Yes, just like Alissa quit after having to qualify for Nationals. :sheesh:

  8. #38
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    If Zhang quits, then she didn't really have the mental toughness to begin with, anyway.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by PolymerBob View Post
    Yes, just like Alissa quit after having to qualify for Nationals. :sheesh:
    There's a difference. Alissa had to do sectionals but also had 2 GP assignments. This season, Caroline will likely have no GP assignments. Also, Alissa's mother is no match for Mama Zhang.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    I suppose it IS, in theory...but Wagner is usually the one sabotaging herself and enabling her competitors to take advantage of the situation. If Wagner had not fallen in her 2010 Nats SP, she would have gone to the Olympics, not Nagasu- even if they skated the same. If Wagner had not blown the SP AGAIN this year, she would have been right in the mix- but she wasn't. The main thing getting in the way of Wagner right now, despite all her flaws, is Wagner.
    Wagner did not exactly blow the SP this year. She had one two foot landing and that was it. She would have only been 6th in the short even with a clean short, and very far behind the scores of the top 3, and already been right out of it.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Wagner did not exactly blow the SP this year. She had one two foot landing and that was it. She would have only been 6th in the short even with a clean short, and very far behind the scores of the top 3, and already been right out of it.
    Solo jump - flutz + step out
    combo - double footed
    slow, labored, terrible choreography.
    She should be way lower than a bunch of new girls.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    There's a difference. Alissa had to do sectionals but also had 2 GP assignments. This season, Caroline will likely have no GP assignments. Also, Alissa's mother is no match for Mama Zhang.
    And I'll bet you're bosom buddies with Mama Zhang just like you are with the rest of all the other skating moms, aren't you?

    I agree that, for the moment, it seems like both Caroline and Ashley are done (this is hard for me to acknowledge being a Caroline fan) but let's not use hearsay to substantiate our omniscient proclamations.

  13. #43
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    It sucks that two of the brighter stars for the US seem to be fading.

    For Caroline, it's been too little too late. Had she started working on fixing her flip, lutz, axel and basics back in 2007 when she made the jump to senior, she'd probably be in better shape. Her team's inability to address her problems early have nearly killed her chances for a successful senior career. She's so far behind right now, I don't know that she'll ever catch up.

    It's so sad because she was so amazing when she first showed up. She had beautiful lines and extension, amazing spins, a good (albeit flawed) technical content, quite a bit of consistency, and most importantly, star power. But nearly all of that is gone now. It's really sad because she was definitely one of my favorites. But she stalled for the better part of 3 years...almost no visual improvements whatsoever. And what really makes me mad is seeing how she improved her flip in one summer under Tammy Gambill. If it was that easy, why didn't she do it back in 2007? Why did it take so long for her to start improving her skating? Think about how much better she might be if she started working on her issues three years ago...it's a sad end to what should have been a really good story...

    Ashley's story is a bit baffling. I know she has flutzing and UR issues, but the majority of her skating isn't bad. Her spins are decent as are her programs and presentation. There just seems to be something about her that doesn't work. She keeps shooting herself in the foot at nationals by messing up the SP. IMO, I think it may be overconfidence on her part, especially in 2010. She was so sure she'd make that team b/c she made the GPF, it was as if she'd already packed her bags. This year she was sick and again made mistakes, but by this point the judges aren't spotting her anything.

    I'm not really a fan of Ashley's. Her skating always looks too frantic to me, like I want to grab her by the shoulders and scream "CALM DOWN!". Her UR and double-footed issues are detrimental to her scores as well but she does package herself decently...I usually enjoy her waaay more than Rachael to say the least.

    IMO, Caroline might be finish. It's unlikely that she'll get more than one (if that) GP assignment this year, and now she has to earn her trip to nationals by going thru sectionals, regionals, etc. I don't know how long she'll stay that route before quitting. I would love to see her pull an Alissa and come back later in her career...but she has A LOT of work to do before she'll be podium ready again.

    As for Ashley, she really needs to assert herself this season. I don't know how much leeway she's going to get from the judges (international or national) but she's gotta come with something really good that will force the judges to give her credit.

  14. #44
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    HAPPY BIRTHDAY CAROLINE !!!!

  15. #45
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    Wishing Caroline a Very Happy Birthday. Is she 18 or 19 today?

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