Daisuke Takahashi Talks About The Worlds And The Future | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Daisuke Takahashi Talks About The Worlds And The Future

skfan

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Why did Shizuka not do her 3-3 combo's in her LP in Torino? If she had her performance that night might have been one of the epic skates to win an OGM. Instead it just felt like she did just enough to win but nothing to be remembered years later.

who cares to be remembered? isn't the OGM the end all and be all of everything?

honestly if she had gone for it and fallen she might have faced some backlash. if she had gone for it and landed those jumps and won, some (most) will say, what sporting courage, what guts! others might say, how silly to risk japan's chance for figure skating history to pad your own ego, your sense of personal glory--even though she won, some will not applaud the hubris, IMHO. for instance i know people who felt miki HAD to play it safe given how mao and kanako fared after the short at this year's worlds.

not saying which side is right, just saying there's always a range of opinions. for me shizuka is already plenty memorable and not only for what she did at the olys.
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Why did Shizuka not do her 3-3 combo's in her LP in Torino? If she had her performance that night might have been one of the epic skates to win an OGM. Instead it just felt like she did just enough to win but nothing to be remembered years later.

Shizuka had two triple-triples planned. From what I read at the time. her team huddled right after Sasha skated, falling twice and taking herself out of the picture. With only Slutskaya and one other to go, Arakawa was assured of a medal just by staying on her feet. Japan had not won a single medal in the whole Olympic games in Tokyo, and they didn't want to take a chance on being shut out. So they took out her first and more difficult triple-triple, opting for a triple-double.

They still planned on the second triple-triple, but in the moment Shizuka did not land the first jump well enough to go for the second.

Turned out it didn't matter, as Sluskaya bombed.

But yeah -- can you imagine that performance with two triple-triples? :love:
 

chloepoco

Medalist
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Why did Shizuka not do her 3-3 combo's in her LP in Torino? If she had her performance that night might have been one of the epic skates to win an OGM. Instead it just felt like she did just enough to win but nothing to be remembered years later.

Of course it's just a matter of opinion, but to me, Shizuka's performance was very memorable. In fact, it's one of my all-time favorite ladies Olympic performances.
 

mot

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
TI am glad to know that there is a Japanese word for "OK-ish." :)

Actually, Mathman, most Japanese words should be translated with -ish appended at the end. There's an art of ambiguities. Clarity is not as highly regarded as nuances / suggestiveness are. :)

thank you again for your efforts, mot. it is a double edged sword when you translate something, even when you share your thoughts with somebody and then it gets transcribed, even into the same language. people might understand you better. or they may THINK they know you better than they actually do from reading a couple of sentences in print or on the net. i applaud daisuke for his candor, because i think it takes great courage to speak with such candor.

now, it also makes me worry for him, because i am a cynic who just doesn't see the road ahead being anything but rocky for anybody i root for (not unique to daisuke). however his comments about feeling deflated if he doesn't get the biggest cheer when introduced makes me want to hug him or (it would be more humane to) send my dog over to nuzzle him or something.

i think you might well cringe reading that-- yet another reader over-reacting to my translation LOL but IMO daisuke wanted to share, not hide, or he wouldn't have taken the risk to say what he did in the first place, in whatever language. it is easy to side-step questions if you have the desire and savvy to. and since he did want to share, you are carrying out his wishes by letting as many people know his revelations as possible :)

i do not interpret what dai said as any sort of slight against patrick chan, the ISU, the trend du jour, the judges, the justice of the universe... anything... it certainly doesn't make him appear any less likable to me. i think most sensible people wouldn't. i think i'm trying to say... please don't feel reluctant to share because far more good than harm comes of your translations. :)

Thank you, skfan. I feel privileged that I am given opportunities to introduce Japanese skaters (and coaches) interviews and articles. I am happy and proud of their achievements and glad to share their voices with fans all over the world. As long as there are people showing any interests in reading what they want to say, I will try to be of help.

I first took a keen notice of Daisuke in the Moscow Worlds in 2005. He skated his short spectacularly well despite having a severe cramp in his right leg, with pain so clearly visible on his face, if you remember. Takeshi Honda, Japan's top man, had withdrawn after suffering the ankle injury during the official practice; so all Japan's hope was unexpectedly placed upon Daisuke's shoulder, at the age of 19, on his first appearance at the Worlds. He imploded in the most spectacular fashion in the free, not landing a single jump solidly, IIRC, not being able to handle the pressure. 6 years later, in Moscow again, the same man came back onto the ice after the most unexpected accident, having missed the opening quad and with no chance of defending his title, and calmly resumed the programme and gave one hell of a performance. It was nothing but a pure joy to witness how a person has grown as a skater and as a man in such a short period of time.

The journey between the two Moscow Worlds was nothing like a clear sailing; it was a roller coaster ride, which was painful and enjoyable at the same time for fans like myself. I am not yet totally relaxed about Daisuke either. I would not be surprised if the next 3 years are also another stretch of roller coaster ride. But I am confident I am capable of handling it. This capacity is a prerequisite for Daisuke fans!

BTW, he'd love to have your dog nuzzle him, skfan. He's a big dog lover! :)


ETA: I think I get the most kick out of watching figure skating, when I can see progress of a skater; technically, mentally, socially, whatever. It's wonderful to see a skater once a biggest headcase being able to handle pressures successfully, or another landing the quad after trying for seasons, or another giving a convincing performance of a programme, which looked nothing but a disaster at the beginning of the season, at the end of it, or another who was once a awkward teenager showing a real star quality, etc, etc...
 
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ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
I think the judges were predisposed to like Arakawa's performance before it was skated. Even more so in the case of Plushenko.

Granted, in the best of all possible worlds "predispositions" shouldn't matter. In this case Shizuka skated sublimely, Sasha fell twice, and Irina was awful, so indeed it didn't matter.

Same with Chan. Everyone expected him to win big and he did. Takahashi agrees. What's the controversy?

The controversy exists in your first sentence. If the judges were predisposed to like Arakawa's performance before it was skated, were they predisposed to liking it regardless of how it was skated? Your assertion that "She was the triple-triple queen and won the gold medal" in the aforementioned context implies that.

Though I have heard (as Flattfan mentioned) that Arakawa should've been farther behind after the SP, though not enough to change the results.
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
The controversy exists in your first sentence. If the judges were predisposed to like Arakawa's performance before it was skated, were they predisposed to liking it regardless of how it was skated?...

I have never heard of any controversy associated with this aspect of figure skating judging. It's just the way it is. Human nature, and all that. If you expect to like something, then you do like it -- at least you like it better than you would if you expected not to like it.
 
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skfan

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Actually, Mathman, most Japanese words should be translated with -ish appended at the end. There's an art of ambiguities. Clarity is not as highly regarded as nuances / suggestiveness are. :)



Thank you, skfan. I feel privileged that I am given opportunities to introduce Japanese skaters (and coaches) interviews and articles. I am happy and proud of their achievements and glad to share their voices with fans all over the world. As long as there are people showing any interests in reading what they want to say, I will try to be of help.

I first took a keen notice of Daisuke in the Moscow Worlds in 2005. He skated his short spectacularly well despite having a severe cramp in his right leg, with pain so clearly visible on his face, if you remember. Takeshi Honda, Japan's top man, had withdrawn after suffering the ankle injury during the official practice; so all Japan's hope was unexpectedly placed upon Daisuke's shoulder, at the age of 19, on his first appearance at the Worlds. He imploded in the most spectacular fashion in the free, not landing a single jump solidly, IIRC, not being able to handle the pressure. 6 years later, in Moscow again, the same man came back onto the ice after the most unexpected accident, having missed the opening quad and with no chance of defending his title, and calmly resumed the programme and gave one hell of a performance. It was nothing but a pure joy to witness how a person has grown as a skater and as a man in such a short period of time.

The journey between the two Moscow Worlds was nothing like a clear sailing; it was a roller coaster ride, which was painful and enjoyable at the same time for fans like myself. I am not yet totally relaxed about Daisuke either. I would not be surprised if the next 3 years are also another stretch of roller coaster ride. But I am confident I am capable of handling it. This capacity is a prerequisite for Daisuke fans!

BTW, he'd love to have your dog nuzzle him, skfan. He's a big dog lover! :)


ETA: I think I get the most kick out of watching figure skating, when I can see progress of a skater; technically, mentally, socially, whatever. It's wonderful to see a skater once a biggest headcase being able to handle pressures successfully, or another landing the quad after trying for seasons, or another giving a convincing performance of a programme, which looked nothing but a disaster at the beginning of the season, at the end of it, or another who was once a awkward teenager showing a real star quality, etc, etc...

i'm really grateful you took the time to comment. i was a bit worried you might think, geez, some people over-react to every little thing! LOL

wow, the pre-requisite for being a daisuke fan... what a journey he has had, what a journey fans have had the privilege to witness. i myself am just a late-comer; i must re-make myself into less of a basketcase so that i don't have to turn in my fan card :)

sylvia on FSU has even linked to your thread here, in the thread about japanese skaters, so it's not just this forum where people know of and appreciate your work. you might want to drop in there to absorb some of the love for daisuke from FSU posters :)
 
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Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
I think throughout the season, Patrick was expected to win the world title. I watched his performance at the Canadian Nationals and official practice in Moscow, and I felt that was going to happen. I could not change the momentum. I could not even make people believe that I was the one to challenge Patrick; I lost to him at that stage.

Maybe, just maybe, the skaters should not watch the performances of their competitors (if they can avoid it and definetely they should not read skating forums or skating articles themselves)? The above sure seems to have affected Takahashi mentally. Yeah, he seems to have lost before the competition even started. Much better just concentrate on one´s own training and let the coach and choreographer worry about that the programmes are competitive against other skaters.

Mot, thanks so much for your translations!!!!
 
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ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
I have never heard of any controversy associated with this aspect of figure skating judging. It's just the way it is. Human nature, and all that. If you expect to like something, then you do like it -- at least you like it better than you would if you expected not to like it.

It's the idea that they're not judging the competition, they're prejudging it.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
It's the idea that they're not judging the competition, they're prejudging it.

As mathman said, it's "human nature."

I don't recall much controversy about judges watching practice either although Patrick came close this season when he said after SC "the judges have seen me land these jumps in practice and they know I can do them."

That was not the wisest comment to make and surely Patrick has been told to keep such thoughts to himself in the future.

But if judges are human so are skaters and Patrick is still young.

Baseball is one of the more subjective sports. Umpires have to use their judgement on every pitch a batter does not swing at. Was it a ball or a strike?

New York Yankee Hall of Fame pitcher Whitey Ford used to tell a story from his rookie season about pitching to Ted Williams the first time.

Ted Williams was such a big star that he had more than one nickname and at times was referred to as "The Kid", "The Splendid Splinter", "Teddy Ballgame", "The Thumper", and he is considered to be one of the greatest hitters who ever played the game.

In Ford's story Williams steps up to the plate and he throws him a knee high fastball that he believed caught the outside corner of the plate. Williams does not swing and the umpire shouts "ball one."

Next pitch is a curve ball that Ford was sure crossed the inside corner of the plate. Williams takes another pass and the umpire signals "ball two."

The third pitch is an inside fastball which Williams also takes.This time Ford is sure it will be called a strike only to hear the umpire exclaim "ball three."

Ford is upset and walks toward the plate and says to the umpire "what do I have to do for you to call a strike?"

The umpire replied "when Mr. Williams thinks the ball is in the strike zone he will swing at it."

Frustrated, Ford throws his best fastball right down the middle of the plate. Williams swings and hits it out of the park.

Moral of the story is that skating is not the only sport where reputation matters.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Maybe, just maybe, the skaters should not watch the performances of their competitors (if they can avoid it and definetely they should not read skating forums or skating articles themselves)? The above sure seems to have affected Takahashi mentally. Yeah, he seems to have lost before the competition even started. Much better just concentrate on one´s own training and let the coach and choreographer worry about that the programmes are competitive against other skaters.

Mot, thanks so much for your translations!!!!
I think what most skaters try to avoid is watch the performance of another skater before they take the ice for their own , on the same competition. Otherwise Daisuke said he watched Canadian Nationals and the world practices,about Canadian NAtionals even of he didnt watch it still he doesnt live in a box and there was no way he wouldnt have heard of it and in World practices, if they had them practicing in the same group it is impossible I think not to see a quad landed next to you.I dont think he could avoid seeing the condition of Chan.
 

mot

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Update on Daisuke's surgery

A little update for Daisuke fans, and a very good one that is!

http://sportsnavi.yahoo.co.jp/winter/skate/figure/headlines/20110529-00000044-kyodo_sp-spo.html

(translated by me)

Former world champion Daisuke Takahashi, after appearing in the study seminar* in Kyoto on May 29, reported on the progress since the surgery he had to remove the screw from the right knee, inserted in the surgery for the torn ACL three years ago; he should be able to start practice on ice properly as early as end of June.

He was discharged from the hospital on May 27, following the surgery on the 19th. He goes to a rehab session every other day. He said, 'I've lost some muscles around the knee, but feel much better with nothing (alien) in my body. It may be just my imagination, but I feel a lot lighter.' Dr. Kunio Hara, who conducted the original surgery three years ago, confirmed that his ACL and meniscus are now back to the pre-injury condition.

----

*translator's not; it was a seminar to promote physiotherapy (as increasing demand for physio expected as Japan's ageing society advances), aimed at general audience, who are interested in sports injuries and post-surgery rehabilitation. Daisuke was invited as a guest panellist. The fee collected from the audience is to be donated for earthquake and tsunami relief.
 
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Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Thanks for the great news, Mot! It's wonderful to hear that doctors made such a high evaluation of his ACL and his meniscus. I maintain hope that Daisuke will continue to flourish until 2014 at least. He's too good to say goodbye to. And thanks for your translation of Dai's words. One of the wonderful aspects of this forum is that all of us get extra insight into skating around the world. If you're biased in Daisuke's favor, that's excusable! He's so wonderful that everyone will understand. He's one of the treasures of contemporary skating--and I proudly admit I'm also biased as I say that.

As for Shizuka, the fact that she didn't do any triple-triples certainly does not diminish her in my esteem. Her triple-doubles were a strategic decision, and I think the right one under the circumstances. I'm thrilled that she won the OGM, and if anyone wants to see her triple-triples, there are some dandy videos on YouTube showing the huge assortment of t-t's she could do. She's still on my now-and-forever list of great skaters, and it's going to take a century or so of other high achievers to knock her off that list.
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
I don't know if you can say that Shizuka was ever a truly great skater even with her winning the OGM. She never was dominate during her peak years and had to rely on Sasha and Irina to fall apart to win in Torino. Perhaps if she had won a few more times in her career i would say she was great but she didn't. All you have to do is look at her record at Worlds. One win and 8th, 9th and 22nd.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
It's an interesting conundrum, Jammers. I see your point completely. Though Shizuka is a wonderful skater, and I always return to the large variety of triple-triples she has, and the longevity of her skills, I think what she wasn't was a great competitor. That's an important part of skating, of course, and she didn't really have that trait. I'll depend on wiser heads than mine to compare her actual skating skills with those of Sasha, Irina, and others. But her skating thrills me in a way that many other skaters don't. Maybe I'm just a sucker for great posture and an unbelievable Ina Bauer. I think that like Lambiel she'll be a great pro skater, because she's a wonderfully stylish performer.
 

mot

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Shizuka said in the documentary programme broadcast in December 2009, that she wanted the gold at Torino as means to launch her career as a pro skater successfully, and thus she worked really hard for it. I thought it was very interesting perspective that the gold medal was not the end itself. I think she has actually improved as a skater since her retirement. Her biellmann position improved, her layback Ina Bauer is often held longer and bent more, she experiments with variety of styles and music choices.

As for jumps, you can see at the beginning of this video (behind the presenters) her 3T-3T-2Lo from layback Ina Bauer from the show held at the beginning of this month. I think it is a proof of pride she takes in herself as a skater, even as a pro.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAt0Vs2iCoU

(The list of my favourite show programmes by Shizuka is actually longer than that of my favourite competitive programmes!)
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
I don't know if you can say that Shizuka was ever a truly great skater even with her winning the OGM. She never was dominate during her peak years and had to rely on Sasha and Irina to fall apart to win in Torino. Perhaps if she had won a few more times in her career i would say she was great but she didn't. All you have to do is look at her record at Worlds. One win and 8th, 9th and 22nd.

I agree. Without 2 events of her career Shizuka is Jennifer Robinson with more talent. I cant ever think of her as a legendary or even really a great skater. A very good one who happened to peak at the right time at both a Worlds and an Olympics and capatilize on the favorites either being missing, ailing, or self destructing.
 
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