Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 109

Thread: Daisuke Takahashi Talks About The Worlds And The Future

  1. #31
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    6,889
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Thank you so much, mot! That was a candid, warm, and heart-felt article from Dai! He is so admirable!



    I fail to see why it's not a real sport? If we judge figure skating on cleanness, like some posters pushed and suggested, I could agree with you. But the actual judging is not. The fact that the most athletic skaters win, not the most artistic skaters win, or not the cleanest performances win, says all. It is a real sport. But it is an unique real sport with art involved.
    Not a problem to agree with your post particularly the last sentence. It is the artisitc components that make figure skating so unique.

    I will rephrase and say "figure skating is a highly political sport based at times as much on reputation as opposed to what actually happens on the ice."

    I don't think that part has changed much in the CoP era. Afterall, the same gang who presided over the SLC scandal are still running the show.

    And they have publicly admitted cheating is prevalent in the "sport" and thus the need for anonymous judges. That along with the reputation scoring does seem to make figure skating a very "unique" sport.

  2. #32
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    5,609
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    When the Olympic practices began, Arakawa was landing triple-triples right and left. Slutskaya and Cohen were struggling. Arakawa established her dominance in the judge's minds. When it came to the actual performace, in fact Arakawa omitted both of the planned triple-triples that she had practiced. But it didn't matter. She was the triple-triple queen and won the gold medal.
    One could argue she won because the two programs she put out on ice eclipsed any other skater's two programs, not because she was the triple-triple queen.

  3. #33
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Mexico City
    Posts
    3,630
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    As I understand it the judges are expected to attend as many of the practice sessions as possible. I do not think that it is strictly required in the competition rules, but the judges like to do it to get a head's up on what to expect.

    Similarly, the skaters must submit a jump card before the actual competition. This alerts the tech panel as to what jumps to expect the skater to attempt. If the skater changes his mind during the performance and does something different, this puts an extra burden on the tech panel to call what they see rather than what they expect.

    I think the reason for this questionable practice is that figure skating judging is too hard. With so many things going on in rapid-fire sequence, if you come in cold you will not be able to process it all.

    Another strange thing, especially at the lower levels, is that the judges are supposed to give advice to the skaters and their coaches as to how the skater might improve his/her scores. This seems like a blurring of the lines or responsibility, and could easily lead to the perception of favoritism.

    The CoP actually helps out a little here. The skaters can see for themselves from the protocols where they can do better, so the judges don't have to take them aside and give them a head's up.
    Yeah, I've always thought it did seem a bit sketchy and like blurring of the lines.

    I agree CoP certainly gives skaters more detailed feedback but do judges actually take skaters aside less now? Didn't Rachael Flatt say she changed her short program because it kept getting bad reviews? I understood this to mean comments from the judges.

  4. #34
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Mexico City
    Posts
    3,630
    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    One could argue she won because the two programs she put out on ice eclipsed any other skater's two programs, not because she was the triple-triple queen.
    I was thinking the same thing ... It's pretty hard to make a case for Irina or Sasha winning over Shiz that day. (Although I don't think her SP really eclipsed anyone. Irina and Sasha skated pretty great SPs)

    It is true that Shiz was looking the strongest in the practices. But it comes down to the same thing - she was skating better that week and the LP turned out to be no different. Still, considering what a mental game skating can be I'm sure Shiz's easy 3-3 during the practices couldn't have been missed by Sasha and Irina.

  5. #35
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    2,188
    Great, Dai! Very straight and manly!!!

    I am sorry to hear that he felt that he had failed to build enough connection with the audience. In fact nobody got as much applauses as he did.

  6. #36
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    27,979
    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    One could argue she won because the two programs she put out on ice eclipsed any other skater's two programs, not because she was the triple-triple queen.
    I think the judges were predisposed to like Arakawa's performance before it was skated. Even more so in the case of Plushenko.

    Granted, in the best of all possible worlds "predispositions" shouldn't matter. In this case Shizuka skated sublimely, Sasha fell twice, and Irina was awful, so indeed it didn't matter.

    Same with Chan. Everyone expected him to win big and he did. Takahashi agrees. What's the controversy?

  7. #37
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    263
    Thanks everyone for taking time to read. It was nothing but my pleasure.

    But can I please remind you NOT to read too much into these sentences! It's only me who translated it; I'm not a professional translator, I don't know Daisuke personally, but I am self-proclaimed Daisuke uber and hence most likely biased, I was not there in Moscow to witness things first hand, English is my second language, and since it's been over a decade since I left Japan, perhaps my Japanese should not be fully trusted! Please try to get a gist of it - that's all!

    Having said that, if I am allowed to express my own 'opinion' too... I think when he talked about Patrick being expected to win and that he could not change the momentum, he was referring to something more elusive. Something in the air. I think most of figure skating fans across the globe thought the world title was Patrick's to loose. That kind of shared belief / sentiment can create that. I don't think he was referring to anyone in particular, whether judges or not.

    He seems to be terribly / wonderfully emotional. He is sensitive to and thrives on applause from those around him, including the audience. He gets extra power and energy from them. He once wrote that if he did not receive the biggest cheer when his name was called out during the warm-up, he got deflated. Yes, he is a difficult person indeed, isn't he?

    "Winning the practises" may be a part of it, however, if we are referring to the minds of the skaters, not necessarily the judges. Here is an excerpt from Daisuke's autobiography, talking about what he calls 'time of horror', meaning the time after the 6-minute warm-up, waiting for his turn to perform;

    I yearn to be the No1, but I cannot believe in myself without a doubt at the same time.

    I observe other skaters during the official practice and 6-minute warm-up, and I determine my position amongst them, for example, 'OK, I am the 3rd best', and loose confidence. To those skaters I think are better than me, I even give way during the practice or on the corridor in the back stage.

    It's a bad psychological habit that I have had for ages. Being able to remain calm enough to observe those around me gets in my way. I want to be able to ignore. I want to be able not to notice.
    Last edited by mot; 05-20-2011 at 01:56 PM.

  8. #38
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,701
    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    One could argue she won because the two programs she put out on ice eclipsed any other skater's two programs, not because she was the triple-triple queen.
    I think her SP score was a bit inflated, due to winning practices. I thought it would be closer to Fumie.
    Instead, her flawed SP (wobbly on the spiral, forward landing on the combo) got very close to Sasha's perfect SP.
    She did a lot of triple-triples, including one in the few minutes warm up before the free skate. And that 3x3 looked effortless. Psyched poor Sasha. Sasha knew even a perfect program wasn't enough to beat a clean Shizuka. That kind of message the judges put out was enough of an advantage for Shizuka.

  9. #39
    take off the oven mitts
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    406
    Quote Originally Posted by mot View Post
    Thanks everyone for taking time to read. It was nothing but my pleasure.

    But can I please remind you NOT to read too much into these sentences! It's only me who translated it; I'm not a professional translator, I don't know Daisuke personally, but I am self-proclaimed Daisuke uber and hence most likely biased, I was not there in Moscow to witness things first hand, English is my second language, and since it's been over a decade since I left Japan, perhaps my Japanese should not be fully trusted! Please try to get a gist of it - that's all!

    Having said that, if I am allowed to express my own 'opinion' too... I think when he talked about Patrick being expected to win and that he could not change the momentum, he was referring to something more elusive. Something in the air. I think most of figure skating fans across the globe thought the world title was Patrick's to loose. That kind of shared belief / sentiment can create that. I don't think he was referring to anyone in particular, whether judges or not.

    He seems to be terribly / wonderfully emotional. He is sensitive to and thrives on applause from those around him, including the audience. He gets extra power and energy from them. He once wrote that if he did not receive the biggest cheer when his name was called out during the warm-up, he got deflated. Yes, he is a difficult person indeed, isn't he?

    "Winning the practises" may be a part of it, however, if we are referring to the minds of the skaters, not necessarily the judges. Here is an excerpt from Daisuke's autobiography, talking about what he calls 'time of horror', meaning the time after the 6-minute warm-up, waiting for his turn to perform;

    I yearn to be the No1, but I cannot believe in myself without a doubt at the same time.

    I observe other skaters during the official practice and 6-minute warm-up, and I determine my position amongst them, for example, 'OK, I am the 3rd best', and loose confidence. To those skaters I think are better than me, I even give way during the practice or on the corridor in the back stage.

    It's a bad psychological habit that I have had for ages. Being able to remain calm enough to observe those around me gets in my way. I want to be able to ignore. I want to be able not to notice.

    thank you again for your efforts, mot. it is a double edged sword when you translate something, even when you share your thoughts with somebody and then it gets transcribed, even into the same language. people might understand you better. or they may THINK they know you better than they actually do from reading a couple of sentences in print or on the net. i applaud daisuke for his candor, because i think it takes great courage to speak with such candor.

    now, it also makes me worry for him, because i am a cynic who just doesn't see the road ahead being anything but rocky for anybody i root for (not unique to daisuke). however his comments about feeling deflated if he doesn't get the biggest cheer when introduced makes me want to hug him or (it would be more humane to) send my dog over to nuzzle him or something.

    i think you might well cringe reading that-- yet another reader over-reacting to my translation LOL but IMO daisuke wanted to share, not hide, or he wouldn't have taken the risk to say what he did in the first place, in whatever language. it is easy to side-step questions if you have the desire and savvy to. and since he did want to share, you are carrying out his wishes by letting as many people know his revelations as possible

    i do not interpret what dai said as any sort of slight against patrick chan, the ISU, the trend du jour, the judges, the justice of the universe... anything... it certainly doesn't make him appear any less likable to me. i think most sensible people wouldn't. i think i'm trying to say... please don't feel reluctant to share because far more good than harm comes of your translations.

  10. #40
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    2,300
    Why did Shizuka not do her 3-3 combo's in her LP in Torino? If she had her performance that night might have been one of the epic skates to win an OGM. Instead it just felt like she did just enough to win but nothing to be remembered years later.

  11. #41
    take off the oven mitts
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    406
    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Why did Shizuka not do her 3-3 combo's in her LP in Torino? If she had her performance that night might have been one of the epic skates to win an OGM. Instead it just felt like she did just enough to win but nothing to be remembered years later.
    who cares to be remembered? isn't the OGM the end all and be all of everything?

    honestly if she had gone for it and fallen she might have faced some backlash. if she had gone for it and landed those jumps and won, some (most) will say, what sporting courage, what guts! others might say, how silly to risk japan's chance for figure skating history to pad your own ego, your sense of personal glory--even though she won, some will not applaud the hubris, IMHO. for instance i know people who felt miki HAD to play it safe given how mao and kanako fared after the short at this year's worlds.

    not saying which side is right, just saying there's always a range of opinions. for me shizuka is already plenty memorable and not only for what she did at the olys.
    Last edited by skfan; 05-20-2011 at 04:31 PM.

  12. #42
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    27,979
    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Why did Shizuka not do her 3-3 combo's in her LP in Torino? If she had her performance that night might have been one of the epic skates to win an OGM. Instead it just felt like she did just enough to win but nothing to be remembered years later.
    Shizuka had two triple-triples planned. From what I read at the time. her team huddled right after Sasha skated, falling twice and taking herself out of the picture. With only Slutskaya and one other to go, Arakawa was assured of a medal just by staying on her feet. Japan had not won a single medal in the whole Olympic games in Tokyo, and they didn't want to take a chance on being shut out. So they took out her first and more difficult triple-triple, opting for a triple-double.

    They still planned on the second triple-triple, but in the moment Shizuka did not land the first jump well enough to go for the second.

    Turned out it didn't matter, as Sluskaya bombed.

    But yeah -- can you imagine that performance with two triple-triples?

  13. #43
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    847
    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Why did Shizuka not do her 3-3 combo's in her LP in Torino? If she had her performance that night might have been one of the epic skates to win an OGM. Instead it just felt like she did just enough to win but nothing to be remembered years later.
    Of course it's just a matter of opinion, but to me, Shizuka's performance was very memorable. In fact, it's one of my all-time favorite ladies Olympic performances.

  14. #44
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Yunaverse
    Posts
    1,535
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post

    But yeah -- can you imagine that performance with two triple-triples?
    2004 Worlds LP. Same program. Two triple-triples. (Well, different choreography for 6.0, but the same in spirit.)

  15. #45
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    263
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    TI am glad to know that there is a Japanese word for "OK-ish."
    Actually, Mathman, most Japanese words should be translated with -ish appended at the end. There's an art of ambiguities. Clarity is not as highly regarded as nuances / suggestiveness are.

    Quote Originally Posted by skfan View Post
    thank you again for your efforts, mot. it is a double edged sword when you translate something, even when you share your thoughts with somebody and then it gets transcribed, even into the same language. people might understand you better. or they may THINK they know you better than they actually do from reading a couple of sentences in print or on the net. i applaud daisuke for his candor, because i think it takes great courage to speak with such candor.

    now, it also makes me worry for him, because i am a cynic who just doesn't see the road ahead being anything but rocky for anybody i root for (not unique to daisuke). however his comments about feeling deflated if he doesn't get the biggest cheer when introduced makes me want to hug him or (it would be more humane to) send my dog over to nuzzle him or something.

    i think you might well cringe reading that-- yet another reader over-reacting to my translation LOL but IMO daisuke wanted to share, not hide, or he wouldn't have taken the risk to say what he did in the first place, in whatever language. it is easy to side-step questions if you have the desire and savvy to. and since he did want to share, you are carrying out his wishes by letting as many people know his revelations as possible

    i do not interpret what dai said as any sort of slight against patrick chan, the ISU, the trend du jour, the judges, the justice of the universe... anything... it certainly doesn't make him appear any less likable to me. i think most sensible people wouldn't. i think i'm trying to say... please don't feel reluctant to share because far more good than harm comes of your translations.
    Thank you, skfan. I feel privileged that I am given opportunities to introduce Japanese skaters (and coaches) interviews and articles. I am happy and proud of their achievements and glad to share their voices with fans all over the world. As long as there are people showing any interests in reading what they want to say, I will try to be of help.

    I first took a keen notice of Daisuke in the Moscow Worlds in 2005. He skated his short spectacularly well despite having a severe cramp in his right leg, with pain so clearly visible on his face, if you remember. Takeshi Honda, Japan's top man, had withdrawn after suffering the ankle injury during the official practice; so all Japan's hope was unexpectedly placed upon Daisuke's shoulder, at the age of 19, on his first appearance at the Worlds. He imploded in the most spectacular fashion in the free, not landing a single jump solidly, IIRC, not being able to handle the pressure. 6 years later, in Moscow again, the same man came back onto the ice after the most unexpected accident, having missed the opening quad and with no chance of defending his title, and calmly resumed the programme and gave one hell of a performance. It was nothing but a pure joy to witness how a person has grown as a skater and as a man in such a short period of time.

    The journey between the two Moscow Worlds was nothing like a clear sailing; it was a roller coaster ride, which was painful and enjoyable at the same time for fans like myself. I am not yet totally relaxed about Daisuke either. I would not be surprised if the next 3 years are also another stretch of roller coaster ride. But I am confident I am capable of handling it. This capacity is a prerequisite for Daisuke fans!

    BTW, he'd love to have your dog nuzzle him, skfan. He's a big dog lover!


    ETA: I think I get the most kick out of watching figure skating, when I can see progress of a skater; technically, mentally, socially, whatever. It's wonderful to see a skater once a biggest headcase being able to handle pressures successfully, or another landing the quad after trying for seasons, or another giving a convincing performance of a programme, which looked nothing but a disaster at the beginning of the season, at the end of it, or another who was once a awkward teenager showing a real star quality, etc, etc...
    Last edited by mot; 05-20-2011 at 06:55 PM.

Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •