The controversy exists in your first sentence. If the judges were predisposed to like Arakawa's performance before it was skated, were they predisposed to liking it regardless of how it was skated? Your assertion that "She was the triple-triple queen and won the gold medal" in the aforementioned context implies that.Originally Posted by Mathman
Though I have heard (as Flattfan mentioned) that Arakawa should've been farther behind after the SP, though not enough to change the results.
Last edited by ImaginaryPogue; 05-20-2011 at 10:27 PM.
Nice interview. I knew I liked him for more than his skating.
I have never heard of any controversy associated with this aspect of figure skating judging. It's just the way it is. Human nature, and all that. If you expect to like something, then you do like it -- at least you like it better than you would if you expected not to like it.
Last edited by Mathman; 05-20-2011 at 10:22 PM.
i'm really grateful you took the time to comment. i was a bit worried you might think, geez, some people over-react to every little thing! LOLActually, Mathman, most Japanese words should be translated with -ish appended at the end. There's an art of ambiguities. Clarity is not as highly regarded as nuances / suggestiveness are.
Thank you, skfan. I feel privileged that I am given opportunities to introduce Japanese skaters (and coaches) interviews and articles. I am happy and proud of their achievements and glad to share their voices with fans all over the world. As long as there are people showing any interests in reading what they want to say, I will try to be of help.
I first took a keen notice of Daisuke in the Moscow Worlds in 2005. He skated his short spectacularly well despite having a severe cramp in his right leg, with pain so clearly visible on his face, if you remember. Takeshi Honda, Japan's top man, had withdrawn after suffering the ankle injury during the official practice; so all Japan's hope was unexpectedly placed upon Daisuke's shoulder, at the age of 19, on his first appearance at the Worlds. He imploded in the most spectacular fashion in the free, not landing a single jump solidly, IIRC, not being able to handle the pressure. 6 years later, in Moscow again, the same man came back onto the ice after the most unexpected accident, having missed the opening quad and with no chance of defending his title, and calmly resumed the programme and gave one hell of a performance. It was nothing but a pure joy to witness how a person has grown as a skater and as a man in such a short period of time.
The journey between the two Moscow Worlds was nothing like a clear sailing; it was a roller coaster ride, which was painful and enjoyable at the same time for fans like myself. I am not yet totally relaxed about Daisuke either. I would not be surprised if the next 3 years are also another stretch of roller coaster ride. But I am confident I am capable of handling it. This capacity is a prerequisite for Daisuke fans!
BTW, he'd love to have your dog nuzzle him, skfan. He's a big dog lover!
ETA: I think I get the most kick out of watching figure skating, when I can see progress of a skater; technically, mentally, socially, whatever. It's wonderful to see a skater once a biggest headcase being able to handle pressures successfully, or another landing the quad after trying for seasons, or another giving a convincing performance of a programme, which looked nothing but a disaster at the beginning of the season, at the end of it, or another who was once a awkward teenager showing a real star quality, etc, etc...
wow, the pre-requisite for being a daisuke fan... what a journey he has had, what a journey fans have had the privilege to witness. i myself am just a late-comer; i must re-make myself into less of a basketcase so that i don't have to turn in my fan card
sylvia on FSU has even linked to your thread here, in the thread about japanese skaters, so it's not just this forum where people know of and appreciate your work. you might want to drop in there to absorb some of the love for daisuke from FSU posters
Last edited by skfan; 05-21-2011 at 12:34 AM.
Maybe, just maybe, the skaters should not watch the performances of their competitors (if they can avoid it and definetely they should not read skating forums or skating articles themselves)? The above sure seems to have affected Takahashi mentally. Yeah, he seems to have lost before the competition even started. Much better just concentrate on one´s own training and let the coach and choreographer worry about that the programmes are competitive against other skaters.
Mot, thanks so much for your translations!!!!
Last edited by Jaana; 05-21-2011 at 06:46 AM.
It's the idea that they're not judging the competition, they're prejudging it.
As mathman said, it's "human nature."
I don't recall much controversy about judges watching practice either although Patrick came close this season when he said after SC "the judges have seen me land these jumps in practice and they know I can do them."
That was not the wisest comment to make and surely Patrick has been told to keep such thoughts to himself in the future.
But if judges are human so are skaters and Patrick is still young.
Baseball is one of the more subjective sports. Umpires have to use their judgement on every pitch a batter does not swing at. Was it a ball or a strike?
New York Yankee Hall of Fame pitcher Whitey Ford used to tell a story from his rookie season about pitching to Ted Williams the first time.
Ted Williams was such a big star that he had more than one nickname and at times was referred to as "The Kid", "The Splendid Splinter", "Teddy Ballgame", "The Thumper", and he is considered to be one of the greatest hitters who ever played the game.
In Ford's story Williams steps up to the plate and he throws him a knee high fastball that he believed caught the outside corner of the plate. Williams does not swing and the umpire shouts "ball one."
Next pitch is a curve ball that Ford was sure crossed the inside corner of the plate. Williams takes another pass and the umpire signals "ball two."
The third pitch is an inside fastball which Williams also takes.This time Ford is sure it will be called a strike only to hear the umpire exclaim "ball three."
Ford is upset and walks toward the plate and says to the umpire "what do I have to do for you to call a strike?"
The umpire replied "when Mr. Williams thinks the ball is in the strike zone he will swing at it."
Frustrated, Ford throws his best fastball right down the middle of the plate. Williams swings and hits it out of the park.
Moral of the story is that skating is not the only sport where reputation matters.
I think what most skaters try to avoid is watch the performance of another skater before they take the ice for their own , on the same competition. Otherwise Daisuke said he watched Canadian Nationals and the world practices,about Canadian NAtionals even of he didnt watch it still he doesnt live in a box and there was no way he wouldnt have heard of it and in World practices, if they had them practicing in the same group it is impossible I think not to see a quad landed next to you.I dont think he could avoid seeing the condition of Chan.
A little update for Daisuke fans, and a very good one that is!
http://sportsnavi.yahoo.co.jp/winter...do_sp-spo.html
(translated by me)
Former world champion Daisuke Takahashi, after appearing in the study seminar* in Kyoto on May 29, reported on the progress since the surgery he had to remove the screw from the right knee, inserted in the surgery for the torn ACL three years ago; he should be able to start practice on ice properly as early as end of June.
He was discharged from the hospital on May 27, following the surgery on the 19th. He goes to a rehab session every other day. He said, 'I've lost some muscles around the knee, but feel much better with nothing (alien) in my body. It may be just my imagination, but I feel a lot lighter.' Dr. Kunio Hara, who conducted the original surgery three years ago, confirmed that his ACL and meniscus are now back to the pre-injury condition.
----
*translator's not; it was a seminar to promote physiotherapy (as increasing demand for physio expected as Japan's ageing society advances), aimed at general audience, who are interested in sports injuries and post-surgery rehabilitation. Daisuke was invited as a guest panellist. The fee collected from the audience is to be donated for earthquake and tsunami relief.
Last edited by mot; 05-29-2011 at 07:14 PM. Reason: for clarification of purpose of the seminar & double negative corrected
Thank you, that is good news!
Thanks for the great news, Mot! It's wonderful to hear that doctors made such a high evaluation of his ACL and his meniscus. I maintain hope that Daisuke will continue to flourish until 2014 at least. He's too good to say goodbye to. And thanks for your translation of Dai's words. One of the wonderful aspects of this forum is that all of us get extra insight into skating around the world. If you're biased in Daisuke's favor, that's excusable! He's so wonderful that everyone will understand. He's one of the treasures of contemporary skating--and I proudly admit I'm also biased as I say that.
As for Shizuka, the fact that she didn't do any triple-triples certainly does not diminish her in my esteem. Her triple-doubles were a strategic decision, and I think the right one under the circumstances. I'm thrilled that she won the OGM, and if anyone wants to see her triple-triples, there are some dandy videos on YouTube showing the huge assortment of t-t's she could do. She's still on my now-and-forever list of great skaters, and it's going to take a century or so of other high achievers to knock her off that list.
I don't know if you can say that Shizuka was ever a truly great skater even with her winning the OGM. She never was dominate during her peak years and had to rely on Sasha and Irina to fall apart to win in Torino. Perhaps if she had won a few more times in her career i would say she was great but she didn't. All you have to do is look at her record at Worlds. One win and 8th, 9th and 22nd.
It's an interesting conundrum, Jammers. I see your point completely. Though Shizuka is a wonderful skater, and I always return to the large variety of triple-triples she has, and the longevity of her skills, I think what she wasn't was a great competitor. That's an important part of skating, of course, and she didn't really have that trait. I'll depend on wiser heads than mine to compare her actual skating skills with those of Sasha, Irina, and others. But her skating thrills me in a way that many other skaters don't. Maybe I'm just a sucker for great posture and an unbelievable Ina Bauer. I think that like Lambiel she'll be a great pro skater, because she's a wonderfully stylish performer.
Shizuka said in the documentary programme broadcast in December 2009, that she wanted the gold at Torino as means to launch her career as a pro skater successfully, and thus she worked really hard for it. I thought it was very interesting perspective that the gold medal was not the end itself. I think she has actually improved as a skater since her retirement. Her biellmann position improved, her layback Ina Bauer is often held longer and bent more, she experiments with variety of styles and music choices.
As for jumps, you can see at the beginning of this video (behind the presenters) her 3T-3T-2Lo from layback Ina Bauer from the show held at the beginning of this month. I think it is a proof of pride she takes in herself as a skater, even as a pro.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAt0Vs2iCoU
(The list of my favourite show programmes by Shizuka is actually longer than that of my favourite competitive programmes!)
I agree. Without 2 events of her career Shizuka is Jennifer Robinson with more talent. I cant ever think of her as a legendary or even really a great skater. A very good one who happened to peak at the right time at both a Worlds and an Olympics and capatilize on the favorites either being missing, ailing, or self destructing.
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