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Thread: Who thinks like me that the ISU should require the 5 types of jumps in the FS

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    Who thinks that the ISU should require the 5 types of jumps in the FS

    I begin to be tired in the ladies field, that the skaters do not take risk, and only do The Easiest jump to gain and save GOE.

    Who believes like me that the ladies should in the long program, do the 5 types of jumps, regardless of whether it would be a double or a triple,
    I think if the ISU would put this rule, the competition will be more interesting and will really shows the best ladies skater

    Who thinks like me ? =)
    Last edited by coolboogie22; 05-22-2011 at 09:02 AM.

  2. #2
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    I think all the standard triples are a valuable skill that every skater should demonstrate or attempt (5 for the ladies--if a lady can do a 3A, she may replace it for one of the others; certainly 6 of the standard triples for the men). Actually, I personally believe that no repeated standard jump should be given credit unless all them are included/attempted in a program.

    I don't know how it would be best implemented into the IJS. Should they add bonuses to create extra incentive? Should there be certain penalties for not doing so? What about edge issues, underrotations, falls, pops, etc.? And how much should these incentives or penalties amount to? Tricky issue to tackle.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    It's not a question of penalties. It's a Flip jump. Since the names of the jumps come from it's take off, the ISU should insist on clear and proper take offs or consider the attempt a total failure. Switching edges, Rotating and Landing like a Flip should be considered against the Zayak Rule.

    There is nothing wrong with leaving the Lutz out of the program.

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    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Which of the ladies did not attempt all five non-Axel takeoffs as either a double or a triple? Not Yuna---just to pre-empt that argument that I'm sure is gonna start again. She did a double loop.

    Look at the top ten free skates at Worlds.

    Skaters who did not attempt all five non-Axel take-offs as either doubles or triples:

    *Miki Ando did not attempt either a triple flip or double flip in the entire competition.

    *Carolina Kostner did not attempt the Lutz.

    *Alissa Czisny did not attempt the Salchow.

    *Ksenia Makarova didn't attempt a Lutz.

    *Elene did not attempt either a Salchow or Flip.

    Skaters who attempted all five non-Axel take offs as doubles or triples:

    * Mao Asada - flutzer (but she attempted a 3A)

    * Kanako Murakami - flutzer

    * Alena Leonova - flutzer

    * Kiira Korpi

    * Yu-na Kim

    Well what do you know...only two skaters attempted all five non-Axel take offs as either doubles or triples without questionable edges, and one of them gets a big flack for omitting one particular triple.
    Last edited by Krislite; 05-21-2011 at 01:59 PM.

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    I think it's a good rule. If you can't do a certain kind of triple, then you should have to put a double of that jump in your program, instead of repeating another type of triple or a 2a.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    Which of the ladies did not attempt all five non-Axel takeoffs as either a double or a triple? Not Yuna---just to pre-empt that argument that I'm sure is gonna start again. She did a double loop.

    Look at the top ten free skates at Worlds.

    Skaters who did not attempt all five non-Axel take-offs as either doubles or triples:

    *Miki Ando did not attempt either a triple flip or double flip in the entire competition.

    *Carolina Kostner did not attempt the Lutz.

    *Alissa Czisny did not attempt the Salchow.

    *Ksenia Makarova didn't attempt a Lutz.

    *Elene did not attempt either a Salchow or Flip.

    Skaters who attempted all five non-Axel take offs as doubles or triples:

    * Mao Asada - flutzer (but she attempted a 3A)

    * Kanako Murakami - flutzer

    * Alena Leonova - flutzer

    * Kiira Korpi

    * Yu-na Kim

    Well what do you know...only two skaters attempted all five non-Axel take offs as either doubles or triples without questionable edges, and one of them gets a big flack for omitting one particular triple.
    Carolina until last year was one of the few to attempt all 5 jumps...This year she didn't do the lutz because of the injury...

    Btw I like your statment and I agree with you but I wouldn't count on double jumps. I a girl can do all doubles it doesn't mean that she can do all triples so IMO the bonus should go to the girl who attempt all triples jumps successful!

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    I think it's a good rule. If you can't do a certain kind of triple, then you should have to put a double of that jump in your program, instead of repeating another type of triple or a 2a.
    I will go further in the case of a lutz. If you can't take off on the defined back outside edge, leave the entire jump out of the program. It's better than having two Flips in the program.

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    I think this is a great idea, but I think that it would be very hard to restrict skaters from repeating certain jumps, so the bonus for skaters attempting all jumps is more appropriate. Yes, the take-off is how a flip/lutz is defined, but I would rather see a skater at least go for the jump rather than omit it because they can't hold the correct edge for 1 more fraction of a second. This, along with the 2 double axel rule per program, would really encourage the younger skaters to get all of their triples, and reward skaters for taking the risk. Perhaps another bonus could be added if a skater completes a program without any wrong edge calls? This would also encourage the skaters to do the right technique on their flip/lutz jumps.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    ^^^
    I don't know if attempt if actually in the regulations of jumps. And who determines if it is an attempt or a deliberate partial credit strategy?

    Most Flutzes are not by accident but a deliberate way to get additional points. I contend the skaters who can not do a proper lutz, will never be able to do a proper lutz. American and Japanese Ladies are most culpable of taking advantage of the laxity in scoring a true lutz.

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    I remember when there was Sasha Cohen, Irina slutkaya, Shizuka Arakawa, Michelle Kwan. And I think that those skaters make the past competition more interesting than today, because all the women incorporated the 5 types of triple jumps in their programs.
    Today, I wish they could put a rule for forcing women to do the 5 types of jumps, because I think it would be interesting to see Yu-Na Kim make a triple loop, that Miki Ando and Cynthia Phaneuf make a triple flip again, that Carolina make the triple lutz, that Elene make the triple flip etc.

    The skaters that I enjoy the most these days is Mao Asada, Mirai Nagasu and Joannie Rochette because they tried to show that they are able to be the best figure skater cause they trying the 5 triple jumps in their program.

  11. #11
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Except Mirai did not plan a salchow in her routine, either as skated at 4CCs or US Nationals:
    US Nationals
    http://www.usfsa.org/leaderboard/res...6/SEGM002.html
    4CC's
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/fc..._FS_Scores.pdf

    Flatt, OTOH, does. Doing so did not make her LP more enjoyable, but she does deserve props for the effort, I think.

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    Many of novice girls can do a combo like 2A-2T-2Lo. I don't see any merit to treat such a thing as an excuse for a "top" skater who can't do the 3loop. If the purpose of this rule is encourage skaters to increase their technical repertoires, only "attempted triples" should be considered. And if it's a "bonus" proposal, only successful cases should be rewarded.
    Last edited by NMURA; 05-22-2011 at 09:37 AM.

  13. #13
    Yuna's Ice Rink cooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    Many of novice girls can do a combo like 2A-2T-2Lo. I don't see any merit to treat such a thing as an excuse for a "top" skater who can't do the 3loop. If the purpose of this rule is encourage skaters to increase their technical repertoires, only "attempted triples" should be considered. And if it's a "bonus" proposal, only successful cases should be rewarded.
    or someone like a World champion who didn't do 3flip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cooper View Post
    or someone like a World champion who didn't do 3flip.
    World champion with no 3f, world silver with no 3lo, world bronze with no 3lz. And all 3 skaters only completed 5 triples in their free programs. Pretty discouraging, eh? The worst part is we all KNOW those three skaters can all do the jump they chose to leave out...

  15. #15
    Yuna's Ice Rink cooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    World champion with no 3f, world silver with no 3lo, world bronze with no 3lz. And all 3 skaters only completed 5 triples in their free programs. Pretty discouraging, eh? The worst part is we all KNOW those three skaters can all do the jump they chose to leave out...
    i'm just saying that NMURA is singled out yuna for not doing 3loop when you have other skaters are doing the same thing.. At least Yuna did her 3-3 (hardest combo during worlds) which I don't think it's discouraging.
    Last edited by cooper; 05-22-2011 at 10:03 AM.

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