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Thread: What will the 2011/2012 season bring us in ice dance?

  1. #136
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    Silly thing to point out, but you forgot the TBD for NHK (only one).

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    I'm surprised to see Davis & White picked Cup of Russia.
    I'm not. It's always been V/M's strategy to pick SC and the last GP event. Skating in the last event gives a dance team time to size up the competition, see what scores well, and work on the areas needed to move ahead of competitors. This time, D/W is #1, so they grabbed the chance to skate last.

    It's not as if there is particularly tough competition in this event anyway.

  3. #138
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Silly thing to point out, but you forgot the TBD for NHK (only one).
    Thanks! i fixed it.

  4. #139
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    Tessa have "French family" so i ould understand, why they choose Paris. And maybe Meryl-harlie didnt like Paris- who knows?
    Before V-M choose SC and NHK i think.
    I have only one question. Two days early they said they didnt talk about competing next season. So i cant unbderstand - will they skate at GP or no.

  5. #140
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    Tessa and Scott have done TEB before ..and it's a place Tessa likes to be.. ( hasn't she said Paris is her favourite city ?)

    And it may work better for her recovery and maintenance to have their competitions fairly evenly spread out . This gives her a bit of time between TEB and GPF

    If they're in , I'd imagine they'd want to do the GP. They'll want their programs to be seen , and they won't want a season filled with too much speculation..will they , won't they , can she , can't she.. I'd think they'd want to erase any lingering doubts.
    Last edited by colleen o'neill; 06-27-2011 at 03:19 PM.

  6. #141
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    My 2011-2012 Ice Dance Daze

    This took some sorting out..



    Well, I've been waiting for Pogue to start his" What Will 2012 Bring Us In.". threads,( hey, no pressure..) and then I saw Back Stage Barbie's Pre-season Chatter thread , which I plan to respond to, at least in part ... but mostly, it's the dance scene that has my head spinning, so I thought I'd start this in the meantime.

    I didn't think the Ice Dance scene could get more mind boggling than last year..and then there were the splits , retirements and changes on the coaching scene … and here we go again.
    I'm eager to see how the young teams that moved up last year follow up this year.

    Overall, I think the Rhumba /Latin theme in the SD leaves the door open for a lot of bad interpretations. I love Latin music , but I feel even more ambivalent about the SD this year than last.

    The Shibs..( I'm definitely ready for more of what they've got. ) I'm imagining a more playful , dance-til-you-drop SD from them, rather than stressing sex appeal ,which could wind up being very refreshing this year. And There's a lot of good music from Sun Valley Seranade for their FD. I'm expecting good things.

    Weaver / Poje .. because they'd been held back from world's for a couple of years , 2011 was like a second debut for them .I hope their FD has a more sophisticated concept ( I'm not sure what to think of their FD music..a lot will depend on the variation in the arrangement ) . I expect they will starting out with the wind already in their sails, and I'm sure they can bring the sizzle to their SD.

    Ilinykh / Katsalapov ..I truly don't know what to expect. Their talent is undeniable , but I didn't think a lot of their material last year. This year.. generally , I'm not a fan of the use of Ave Maria in skating and I don't know who's doing their choreo..but I'm not generally a fan of Morozov's. I thought they made the mistake of trying to be too different in the SD last year .. this year , if it's Morozov, I'm afraid I might find it too ... well , I can't help thinking of the heavy-handed “sexy” stuff he's done for Miki, Florent, Javier ..I'll just have to wait and see , but I don't feel comfortable. To me Morozov has not been good at recognizing where something goes beyond sexy to just crude and vulgar.

    Riazanova / Tkatchenko (sp?)..I loved their Sviridov SD last year, but felt their FD was a dud. I like them as a couple , and having had another year growing together, they could make things interesting .If their Sviridov FD brings out the qualities we saw in last year's SD , I/K could face quite a challenge from them. Don't know what to expect from their SD, at all...but I can certainly imagine her in Latin mode .

    Paul / Islam... I'm so glad they'll fully have a chance to compete this year. I can hardly contain my curiosity to see these two , for 2 main reasons : 1. Every time I've seen them, they've shown a marked improvement over the last time , and I've no reason to think this early season will be any different, according to reports I've heard so far. 2 . I'm completely smitten with their music choices, especially for the SD ( sophisticated, distinctive,different..but unmistakably the proper rhythms ) , and I think there's a lot to like in the Elton John FD music as well. With SD choreo from Haguenauer (with whom they've worked before...and a very nice program it was ) and Wilson for their FD , I expect a mature , stylish presentation from them.I think they're a very balanced couple , right down to the level of intesity they each carry into a program.

    Of the newly formed couples, I'm really looking forward to Hubbell / Donohue . Their FD is to “ I Put a Spell on You “ and apparently that's just what they did to all those who saw them this summer … including the judges. This could be good.

    I'm still so numb over the S/B split ( I saw them as probable future World Champions ) that I have no sense of what to expect of them with their new partners. We'll see Chock / Bates at SC , but maybe not until their respective Nationals for Samuelson / Gilles and Gilles / Poirier, and there's no word of a partnership for Vanessa Crone , yet . I find it hard to work up much excitement until I see them.

    I'm quite looking forward to Zhiganshina / Gazsi.. sounds like they have a more serious FD this year. Cappelini / La Notte ... I hope they can bounce back ,but it still sounds like a scattered coaching situation to me.
    Bobrova / Soloviev could have an inspired choice in “Walpurgis Night “ for their FD. I can see her completely in that role. Light, airy, flirtatious..it could be great.

    I can't say I feel Ralph /Hill have made good choices in either dance but since it's very early, I'll just hope for improvement. I don't think the rhumba works very well at that tempo, plus .. unless they're toned down ,the gyrations ( and lower lip biting )will cross the vulgarity line. Costume too naked for Kharis. There's still time for refinement. And FD.. Tango is so difficult to carry off well or believably , unless you have a natural affinity for the dance , or are skaters of the highest calibre ( see D/W ) it won't show you to your best advantage.
    Strangely, Harvey/Gagnon who were very close to R/H at Canadians last year , have a challenged SD as well ..I just don't think a faster rhumba works ... it may fit into another 4/4, but unless it's a distinct rhumba..it's kind of flat. Their FD has some nice moves, but was still a bit rough at BCSS. Tarah's SD costume didn't say “Latin “ at all. In my mind, these are the 2 teams ( this year ) that will need to watch out for the emergence of G/P at Canadians ..and for Orford / Williams steaming up from Juniors.

    I still think Virtue /Moir and this year's champions ( Ta Da!) Davis/ White will be pretty unassailable at the top of the heap. We can trust that V/M's SD will be fabulous ,and I'm curious to see D/W's..they say it has a hip-hop feel. Hmmmm ( could be fun... could be a bit of a divergence from straight latin ?). OTOH their FD sounds like a return to their strength , while V/M's FD is a bit of a mystery til we know what pieces they're using from Funny face. I know we can trust it will be good, but there's a lot of different things they could do with it.

    Pechalat / Bourzat are maybe the biggest question mark for me.. I loved last year's programs.. but don't know what to think about their “ Pharaoh and Mummy “ FD.. often I've felt they got lost in their most theatrical programs..so I'm a bit anxious for them. There's a lot of hot talent on their heels. If they're ever going to medal it would be lovely if they could do it in France.

    That's what's puzzling my puzzler , what about you ?
    Last edited by colleen o'neill; 09-01-2011 at 04:53 AM.

  7. #142
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    I did a while back but they got archived. I'll try and find links and add to the discussion here.

  8. #143
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    Pogue..As you can see, I've been in a fog.. Now that you mention it, I seem to remember vaguely...maybe I couldn't begin to sort my thoughts when your thread was first up..If anyone wants to bump yours up and add mine in , that would be good, too.

  9. #144
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Done !

  10. #145
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    Thanks, Doris... I have to laugh at myself..Of course I remember this thread..just not what it was called .. ( oh, break out the Ginko !)

  11. #146
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    The open russian test skates start tomorrow and it will be very interesting to see what programs, and especially FDs the russian teams have this season.I was so sure that most of the teams will opt for balroom/dancey routines and the music selections especially from Europe show the exact opposite.(I have to say though,that my secret hope was that they'll resist and we'll get some variety)
    I'm not sure that we'll know exactly what team does what and how competitive they are, unless we get some good fan videos.Taking into account that it's more like an exhibition format this season,it will be interesting to see which team's fans get the tickets

    The couple I'm more worried about right now is Capellini/Lanotte.If they don't improve on speed,and programs,they'll be dumped,although there is hope being Italy's number 1 team right now.The judges have dumped them before,and if they don't do some critical changes they'll have no problem doing it again...I actually liked them and thought that they'd have a totally different career when they first came into seniors,but they recycle lifts,they change coaches a lot and they haven't found their style yet,or to put it better,I feel that have left the style that best suits them."Triavata" was beautiful.

    For some reason,I expect Zhiganzina (sp?)/Gazsi to do pretty well this season,maybe get into top 5 in Euros as well.

    Pechalat/Bourzat are a big question mark for me.They have to compete against V/M twice, and if I'm not mistaken,against D/W as well.Plus,they'll have to face I/K, their former training mates at Bombard.They can either make a statement by getting close to V/M and D/W and show they're contenders,or it may even cost them the European title.
    I have no problem imagining an all Russian podium at Euros this season,it could be done,especially if something goes wrong for P/B.But Worlds are in Nice, and that's another story.I like P/B but last season and this coming one reminds me of F/S when the 2010 Worlds were in Turin.Somehow I just can't see the judges sticking with them all the way to Sochi.
    What I really want to see is if the two top Canton teams remain so far away in marks from the other teams.Something tells me that we will have a few surprises in that domain...

  12. #147
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    Firstly, I completely agree with you about Cappellinni/Lannotte. They are in the worst position they could be in. Despite their best performance at Worlds ever (8th), Morosov isn't known for his egalitarian coaching. Given that I/K are clearly gonna get a real push this season, I definitely see C/L getting shunted aside in that camp. Last season was so depressing for them (for me)

    Like you, I have a really hard time imagining the judges dumping P/B until after Nice (and more than likely, if they medal, they retire anyway, making it moot). The big question mark here is how well do they do with Krylova/Camerlengo? They left Zhulin unwillingly (both sides have stated that if it were up to them, they'd continue the association), and the K/C crew gets bigger all the time.

    If the Canton teams don't get reeled in this season (aka - winning by less than ten points) and by the upcoming Russian contenders, I suspect it'll be too late for Sochi. The backlash against Canton is strong and I do wonder if we'll see the gap narrowing. But by whom? Morosov, despite knowing how to make a high BV COP program, isn't an ice dance coach, and trying to shortcut his way to results (copying V/M's music choice and twizzles in the SD, for example) is both cheap and risky. But I/K are clearly the choice of the Russian Fed and if any team benefits from politicking, it'll be them. I really like Bobrova/Soloviev, but they seem to make mistakes in high pressure circumstances (and boy, does twizzling hate them). BUT, and this is extremely important, they have the longest partnership of the Russian teams. People tend to neglect this fact as if it's somehow unimportant to COP, but it most assuredly isn't. Check out the past OGMs and the duration of their partnership at the victory.

    • 2010: Virtue/Moir. Teamed up in 1997. 13 years
    • 2006: Navka/Kostomorov. Teamed up in 1998. 8 years
    • 2002: Anissina/Piezerat. Teamed up in 1993. 9 years
    • 1994/98: Grishuk/Platov. Teamed up in 1989. 5/9 years
    • 1992: Klimova/Ponamarenko. Teamed up in ???? (1982 at the latest). 10 years (minimum)
    • 1988: Bestemianova/Bukin. Teamed up in 1976. 12 years
    • 1984: Torvill/Dean. Teamed up in 1975. 9 years
    • 1980: Linichuk/Karponossov. Teamed up in 1970/71. 10 years
    • 1976: Pakhomova/Gorshkov. Teamed up in 1966. 10 years


    By Sochi, Bobrova/Soloviev will have been together for 14 years (teamed up in 2000). Compare that to I/K (six or seven) and R/T (4). That is a significant time difference. Both Virtue/Moir and Davis/White had FIVE YEARS on Domnina/Shabalin, despite the latter's age. COP does favour youth due to high technical elements. But doing those highly technical elements requires a great deal of trust and comfort between the dancers (how many times did Nikita screw up a lift this season? That swan dive lift looked like it would go wrong so many times). I'm unconvinced right now with I/K, but if the rumours that they have kept their old choreographer while going to Morosov are correct, they are better positioned than they would be otherwise. But again, I don't think shortcutting will work for Olympic gold (see DomShabs in the end) and if Morosov's comments about how he works with Ando are any indication of his work in general (and I think they are), I/K would be best to work with him for a season (he's great for confidence) than leave again.

    I won't deny it, though, I really am rooting for V/M to take a second Olympic gold.

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Firstly, I completely agree with you about Cappellinni/Lannotte. They are in the worst position they could be in. Despite their best performance at Worlds ever (8th), Morosov isn't known for his egalitarian coaching. Given that I/K are clearly gonna get a real push this season, I definitely see C/L getting shunted aside in that camp. Last season was so depressing for them (for me)

    Like you, I have a really hard time imagining the judges dumping P/B until after Nice (and more than likely, if they medal, they retire anyway, making it moot). The big question mark here is how well do they do with Krylova/Camerlengo? They left Zhulin unwillingly (both sides have stated that if it were up to them, they'd continue the association), and the K/C crew gets bigger all the time.

    If the Canton teams don't get reeled in this season (aka - winning by less than ten points) and by the upcoming Russian contenders, I suspect it'll be too late for Sochi. The backlash against Canton is strong and I do wonder if we'll see the gap narrowing. But by whom? Morosov, despite knowing how to make a high BV COP program, isn't an ice dance coach, and trying to shortcut his way to results (copying V/M's music choice and twizzles in the SD, for example) is both cheap and risky. But I/K are clearly the choice of the Russian Fed and if any team benefits from politicking, it'll be them. I really like Bobrova/Soloviev, but they seem to make mistakes in high pressure circumstances (and boy, does twizzling hate them). BUT, and this is extremely important, they have the longest partnership of the Russian teams. People tend to neglect this fact as if it's somehow unimportant to COP, but it most assuredly isn't. Check out the past OGMs and the duration of their partnership at the victory.
    P/B have said that they are in it through Sochi. The FFSG doesn't really have another elite team to replace them, and their breakthrough came at a later age than most current ice dancers. Barring their being epically dumped this season, I can't see them retiring. Re their new coaches, they have worked with Camerlengo in the past - when he was an assistant and they junior ice dancers at Lyon. Personally, I'm not too sorry about their leaving Zhulin; I felt they were progressing technically but regressing artistically. Some fresh ideas could be good for them. BTW, by Sochi they will have been together for about 14 years .

    With F/S's status unclear and the Euros field quite thin, C/L really need to take advantage and come up with something impressive to position themselves as serious contenders. Alas, I don't think Morozov has it in him, and I agree they might suffer from lack of attention with I/K training alongside them.

    How does one copy twizzles?

    Re Canton, yeah, I do sense a bit of a backlash, though whether it extends to the judges is hard to say at this point. If it does, I imagine the Shibs will be the ones to pay the price: V/M and D/W have built too much of a reputation, but the Shibs are young, are perceived by many to have been lucky with their 2011 results, and they are in danger of being packaged as a very one-note team. Sibling teams can't do romantic stuff, but they can show more range than the Shibs will with the material they are being given.

  14. #149
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    I know they said they're sticking with it until Sochi, but I'll believe it when I see it. I will point out that they were en route at Worlds to closing the gap to the 10 points or less goal I mentioned before the error. The thing is I don't see them being dumped this season regardless. But, flashing back to Euros 2011 for a second, the gap between them and B/S was only six points. Between them and I/K, just under 14. The gap between them (with error) and D/W? Over 21 points. That suggests that the younger teams (who are more likely to/have more room to improve) will probably close the gap between them and P/B faster than P/B can with the Canton quartet. If they have a great season, I can see them sticking around, but I don't know what a great season entails, exactly.

    My understanding is that the twizzle section in I/K's SD will ape the circular pattern V/M did in their FD. Set to the same music. They certainly aren't the first team to do a circular set of twizzles (Hurtado/Diaz did so in the 08/09 season) but it does seem to be a little spurious.

    It'll be interesting to see if the backlash does exist with the judges and if it does extend beyond the Shibs. I agree, they're likely to be the first ones to pay the price. That said, if V/M retires due to injuries (I don't see them leaving the game otherwise), I think D/W actually become a little vulnerable too. It's easier to politic against OSM than OGM, and if the Shibs do actually show the range people hope for.....

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