What will the 2011/2012 season bring us in ice dance?

[chuckm]

For example a year ago the young Russians, I/K were beating S/S pretty soundly. Then S/S improved and I/K stagnated. But now with I/k working with new coaches etc, that could change again by next year. I kind of feel like the Shibs are a bit limited artistically.

I can see W/B overtaking the Shibs too. And I think P/B ARE the better team, and maybe with new coaching they will improve.

Their last year as juniors, Alex Shibutani had a growth spurt and Maia didn't grow; she was so small compared to Alex that they took a hit in their JGP scores because certain moves looked awkward. But Maia then had a major growth spurt last summer and it was a whole new ball game. The Shibs beat I/K at NHK 2010, winning bronze, and they beat them again at Worlds. For a new senior dance team to make their GP debut with two bronze medals and GPF first alternate status shows how exceptional they are.

Maia and Alex are 16 and 20, and W/P 22 and 24, whereas P/B are 27 and 30. The younger teams have more improvement potential than P/B does.

[bekalc]

Their last year as juniors, Alex Shibutani had a growth spurt and Maia didn't grow; she was so small compared to Alex that they took a hit in their JGP scores because certain moves looked awkward. But Maia then had a major growth spurt last summer and it was a whole new ball game. The Shibs beat I/K at NHK 2010, winning bronze, and they beat them again at Worlds. For a new senior dance team to make their GP debut with two bronze medals and GPF first alternate status shows how exceptional they are.

Maia and Alex are 16 and 20, and W/P 22 and 24, whereas P/B are 27 and 30. The younger teams have more improvement potential than P/B does.

I never said the Shibs didn't deserve to beat I/K this year or that they aren't amazing technically. But as I said before I find sibling teams limited.

[silverlake22]

I agree that I/K have to work on a lot technically. But if they can catch up technically they should pass the Shibs. I'm not a big fan of brother and sister teams and think there's a lot these type of teams can't do artistically. In terms of artistry just in general I think I/K have more potential. Better lines, better style etc.

The thing I wonder about with I/K is lack of focus/motivation. Nikita is a nervous performer, which hurts them, and Elena seems to have a lot of interests outside of skating and reminds me a little of Mirai in the sense that she's so talented but also highly emotional and not particularly mature or focused, or at least it seems that way. In some ways it seems like that girl would rather be an actress or model than a figure skater, judging from all the posed pictures she likes to take of herself (looking gorgeous, of course). So my question is, does she want it enough?

[bekalc]

The thing I wonder about with I/K is lack of focus/motivation. Nikita is a nervous performer, which hurts them, and Elena seems to have a lot of interests outside of skating and reminds me a little of Mirai in the sense that she's so talented but also highly emotional and not particularly mature or focused, or at least it seems that way. In some ways it seems like that girl would rather be an actress or model than a figure skater, judging from all the posed pictures she likes to take of herself (looking gorgeous, of course). So my question is, does she want it enough?

:lol: I think we will have to see what happens with the new coaching. Because there were reports that Zhulin wasn't around much.

[silverlake22]

:lol: I think we will have to see what happens with the new coaching. Because there were reports that Zhulin wasn't around much.

Yeah. IMO she might be better off ditching Nikita and finding a new partner. She's a lot better than he is, at least in competition, and it would probably easier for them to date that way.

[bekalc]

Yeah. IMO she might be better off ditching Nikita and finding a new partner. She's a lot better than he is, at least in competition, and it would probably easier for them to date that way.

Nikita had a back injury last summer, which hurt their training progress. He's extremely talented and on paper has better skating skills than Elena. He's also quite young. If he doesn't get his act together in maybe 2/3 years then sure I think a new partner will be in order. But you don't break up a promising partnership at the first sign of trouble. Thats why the US has such issues with pairs.

But people forget that last year was I/k's first year on the international circuit. The Shibs ARE more experienced than they are and have been together longer. Give them time to get use to the pressure.

[pangtongfan]

It is amazing the Shibutanis went from a disaesterous junior season where they missed the World junior podium to winning a medal at World seniors. Ice dance never used to be this unpredictable.

[pangtongfan]

I agree that I/K have to work on a lot technically. But if they can catch up technically they should pass the Shibs. I'm not a big fan of brother and sister teams and think there's a lot these type of teams can't do artistically. In terms of artistry just in general I think I/K have more potential. Better lines, better style etc.

The Duchensays were brother and sister and were amazing artistically with some of the most captivating programs and interpretation ever. It helped them be competitive with technically far superior teams like Klimova & Ponomarenko and Usova & Zhulin. I dont think the Shibutanis will ever be as strong as they are artistically though.

[KKonas]

The Duchensays were brother and sister and were amazing artistically with some of the most captivating programs and interpretation ever. It helped them be competitive with technically far superior teams like Klimova & Ponomarenko and Usova & Zhulin. I dont think the Shibutanis will ever be as strong as they are artistically though.

The Shibs are not like the Duchesnays in any respect, although the Duchesnays were great fun to watch and were also considerably older than the Shibs, the Shibs have an elegance that the Duchesnays never had, so I think they can present more classical programs and still be relevant. Not all dance has to be steamy, sexy or romantic.

[100yen]

The Shibs are not like the Duchesnays in any respect, although the Duchesnays were great fun to watch and were also considerably older than the Shibs, the Shibs have an elegance that the Duchesnays never had, so I think they can present more classical programs and still be relevant. Not all dance has to be steamy, sexy or romantic.

Exactly. There will always be people who dislike sibling teams no matter what they do, even though I find this logic quite puzzling. What's wrong with a brother and sister dancing together? You have to have a pretty..umm...twisted way of looking at things if you think brother/sister dances are intended to suggest something.
Figure skating is changing every day, the world is changing...it's important to keep an open mind. Automatically shutting down any prospect of a brother/sister team actually being excellent and being blinded by a self-created "eww" factor is a bit mind-boggling to me.

We might as well ban every father-daughter dance because apparently it's too gross for family members to dance together. I just can't see the logic. At all.

Alas, people are entitled to their own opinions, and I will respect that.

EDIT: I agree there are certain challenges to choreographing for a sibling team, but often limitations can become a strength as skaters and coaches are forced to take the "less traveled" (aka non-generic-steamy-romantic-sweetheart) road and come up with something actually creative. The sibling connection also provides for a certain charm they wouldn't have otherwise. If it wasn't for a brother/sister relationship in their FD this year, it could have easily become a cheesy, sappy, also-ran dance. But instead they made it sweet, elegant, a little sentimental, and timeless.

Everyone only goes on and on about the artistic limitations, but they completely forget the possibilities. Siblings skating together can be magical, one just has to think outside of the typical ice dance box.

[gmyers]

I don't care that S/S are siblings but their program last year in the FD with the horrible fake smiles throughout were so weird. If that's what being siblings mean-plaster smiles throughout programs-that is just ew.

[bekalc]

romantic.
Exactly. There will always be people who dislike sibling teams no matter what they do, even though I find this logic quite puzzling. What's wrong with a brother and sister dancing together? You have to have a pretty..umm...twisted way of looking at things if you think brother/sister dances are intended to suggest something.

There's nothing wrong with siblings dancing together. Its just that there are forms of dance that can be lmited because your a sibling team. Ie a Sibling team dancing a very passionate tango.. For example.

And there's a level of cookie cutterness about them. Brilliant team technically absolutely! But brilliant team artistically-not so much.

I think I/K have more potential artistically just in general, but of course I/K HAVE to improve technically.

[100yen]

I don't care that S/S are siblings but their program last year in the FD with the horrible fake smiles throughout were so weird. If that's what being siblings mean-plaster smiles throughout programs-that is just ew.

You are missing the entire point of the program. It's to smile. To celebrate dancing a be happy about it. They are out there enjoying themselves and trying send out the message "keep smiling through the good and bad times" to the audience. What do you expect them to do? They're having fun and keeping up the positive message. Surely even you smile when you are excited and glad about something?

Also, you seem to pop up and say the same thing every time someone mentions the Shibutanis. For example, the Worlds Free Dance thread. You obviously do not like them and made it clear that for some reason you harbor some kind of bitterness for them that you only explain through snarky and shallow comments about their "smiles" and how it's just "ew". Your troll-like behavior only proves that Maia and Alex have reached a point where they are good enough to have antis who will knock them down out of jealousy, "favorites" loosing to them, or whatever other reason you happen to use to justify your repetitive stream of hate.

There's nothing wrong with siblings dancing together. Its just that there are forms of dance that can be lmited because your a sibling team. Ie a Sibling team dancing a very passionate tango.. For example.

And there's a level of cookie cutterness about them. Brilliant team technically absolutely! But brilliant team artistically-not so much.

I think I/K have more potential artistically just in general, but of course I/K HAVE to improve technically.

I see what you mean, but I think I addressed much of that in the last part of my last post. Anyways, I/K do have an incredible amount of potential! I think their power is probably their major advantage. and Elena's balletic posture. I feel like Nikita still has some catching up with her to do in this respect, but I would never count them out. I hope the new coaching helps them establish a better connection with each other as well

[chuckm]

Zhulin has commented on I/K's lack of dedication to training, and I think the problems I/K had all season with their FD reflects that. They never performed that FD well, and their final performance at Worlds was the worst of the season. Another poster commented on Ilniuk's similarities to Mirai Nagasu, and IMO that was right on, especially in respect to the hard work needed to perform consistently well.

[bekalc]

Zhulin has commented on I/K's lack of dedication to training, and I think the problems I/K had all season with their FD reflects that. They never performed that FD well, and their final performance at Worlds was the worst of the season. Another poster commented on Ilniuk's similarities to Mirai Nagasu, and IMO that was right on, especially in respect to the hard work needed to perform consistently well.

Except for the fact that Mirai has a very involved coach, and there were rumors that Zhulin was not involved, and even rumors that they wanted him to train them harder (and he then responded with I know how to peak you don't) Tarasova was screaming about their progress and Zhulin's lack of training from the start of early season.

And as for Elena, I believe at Russian Nationals, Tarasova was suggesting HE and not Elena was the problem. She's not normally the one who is messing up in big competitions.

I/K are a wait and see. If they still have these kind of issues next season then they absolutely are the problem.