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Thread: What will the 2011/2012 season bring us in ice dance?

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by 100yen View Post
    You are missing the entire point of the program. It's to smile. To celebrate dancing a be happy about it. They are out there enjoying themselves and trying send out the message "keep smiling through the good and bad times" to the audience. What do you expect them to do? They're having fun and keeping up the positive message. Surely even you smile when you are excited and glad about something?

    Also, you seem to pop up and say the same thing every time someone mentions the Shibutanis. For example, the Worlds Free Dance thread. You obviously do not like them and made it clear that for some reason you harbor some kind of bitterness for them that you only explain through snarky and shallow comments about their "smiles" and how it's just "ew". Your troll-like behavior only proves that Maia and Alex have reached a point where they are good enough to have antis who will knock them down out of jealousy, "favorites" loosing to them, or whatever other reason you happen to use to justify your repetitive stream of hate.



    I see what you mean, but I think I addressed much of that in the last part of my last post. Anyways, I/K do have an incredible amount of potential! I think their power is probably their major advantage. and Elena's balletic posture. I feel like Nikita still has some catching up with her to do in this respect, but I would never count them out. I hope the new coaching helps them establish a better connection with each other as well
    I am sure there was a way to make their smiles look genuine. They did not do that for me. I would see them in the Kiss and Cry smiling all the time because they did well but in the program they were not good. I bet its their youth and their acting skills will improve with time - their whole performance quality should improve. Their success speaks for itself but they are not flawlessly amazing in every single facet of skating and can improve in presentation if not in tech.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    There's nothing wrong with siblings dancing together. Its just that there are forms of dance that can be lmited because your a sibling team. Ie a Sibling team dancing a very passionate tango.. For example.

    And there's a level of cookie cutterness about them. Brilliant team technically absolutely! But brilliant team artistically-not so much.

    I think I/K have more potential artistically just in general, but of course I/K HAVE to improve technically.
    Not to start another mind-numbingly tedious rehash of the different types of tangos and the manner in which they can be portrayed, but it seems that you are basing this assessment on a rather narrow definition of how a tango must necessarily be danced. Not every tango is meant to be steamy. They can also be cheeky, playful, soft, represent a battle of wills, etc. There are options for interpretation that would suit them in almost every style of dance.

  3. #123
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    to gmyers:
    good grief! what a mean spirited thing to say ... they smile not just because they are supposed to but because they are lovely young adults who are genuinely happy and smiley people. their programs were not without flaws and I am certain they would be the first to acknowledge that, but they were happy! Happy to be there, happy to have done well, just genuine and simply, joyfully, refreshingly HAPPY.
    Last edited by dancemom; 05-31-2011 at 10:04 PM.

  4. #124
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    This might be one of the more thought-provoking threads out there in quite some time. As a psychiatrist I find several themes striking.

    The inability of some people to contain their discomfort with brothers/sisters dancing together, actually, signals to me neuroses and issues which reflect a lot more on the commentators who feel compelled to express these views publicly (albeit anonymously) than of the skaters involved.

    Those who view the sibling dynamic as more "limited" choreographically are ironically, probably using the right word for them, in more ways than they realize. People who see limits are not surprisingly going to have prevailing views strongly influenced or defined by limits.

    What leaps off the page (screen) though, is the resemblance some of these views have to prejudice, with people very convinced that their views are what "should" be seen, in a yes/no, right/wrong sort of way, regardless of whether they are fully informed. For instance, "Latin" for some immediately presumes "sexy" = success, until more sensible posts from the likes of Doris informed that the ice dance Rhumba compulsory isn't necessary of that stereotype or "formula".

    I realize there are a wide spectrum of opinions and I welcome the "chatboard" setting as literally a unique "forum" for expressing differing opinons (or I wouldn't visit the board). It's just that the "tone" of some of the comments are not just "mean spirited" but are so charged with hatred or resentment towards the Shibutanis. As pointed out by some others (100Yen, JCoates, lcd, Hernando) some of these so cross the line of "just" opinion. Depressing actually, thought the "shrink." Depressing.

    Those who are willing to see something different or non "traditional" as unique, will presumably at least be willing to acknowledge the possibility of "things" happening (and I do not mean just ice dancing) in sport, life, art, etc. ... in a very different "light." And just maybe, the difference could be a way for a sport or an artform to actually grow and advance. A reason to stay hopeful about mankind. I suppose and I can hope.
    Last edited by Binthere; 06-01-2011 at 11:34 PM.

  5. #125
    Always supporting skaters :) 100yen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Binthere View Post
    Entire post.
    Forever loving that post.....

    Anyway, it looks like quite a deal of predictions are going to change based on the recent splits. Ice dancing just keeps getting more and more and more interesting by the day...

  6. #126
    Rooting for the divas with Kwanford Spun Silver's Avatar
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    Those concerned about the limits of a brother-sister team might do well to heed Stravinsky:

    "The creator's function is to sift the elements he receives from [imagination], for human activity must impose limits on itself. The more art is controlled, limited, worked over, the more it is free. [...] I shall go even farther: my freedom will be so much the greater and more meaningful the more narrowly I limit my field of action and the more I surround myself with obstacles."

    The same attitude also bodes well for those who chafe at the COP with its overregulation of choreography.

    http://jorielle-music.blogspot.com/2...limits-as.html

  7. #127
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    Spun Silver makes a good point. Ice dance has historically been the most restrictive of all disciplines. Yet, it is nevertheless, the most creative as well because its rules challenge choreographers, coaches and skaters to be endlessly creative in the figuring out ways to work with or circumvent the rules. That was one of the reasons why the Duchenays and the Kerrs were such fan favorites. They were forced to figure out alternative solutions.

  8. #128
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    The Czech couple Mysliveckova/Novak have split. She is looking for a new partner.

    Matej's had a history of unfortunate tumbles, and up to now Lucie's been supportive, but I guess Matej's two falls in the FD at Worlds 2011 were the last straw.

    I have to say I really enjoyed both of their programs this past season.

  9. #129
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    I had been thinking a lot about the importance of having the right choreography this season ,and how that could make all the difference with so many teams being so tightly packed...then we went off on the Shibs..and then there were the splits, oh, the splits!

    Anyway, I still think it's a pretty important question , it's just a bit more murky with teams dropping out of the equation. The three teams that I feel very confident of having really good programs ,are V/M , D/W and the Shibs. I know Z/S have some very adamant detractors, but I often feel those are like someone who plugs their ears and goes La-la-la-la in an argument. After all, something can be not to your taste and still have merit .

    I feel that with D/W trying to defend their title, we'll see a return to their strengths..dramatic theme , etc...I'm thinking V/M have more leeway to experiment..The Shibs? Let's face it ,the surface has been barely scratched..but if I was deciding, I'd say more pure dance. Doris has mentioned their wonderful timing , and who wouldn't want to see more of the sheer joy of dancing ? ( Maybe with more intricate holds , etc. to address the areas where commentators said they could improve.) And I would think they'd want to differentiate themselves from S/B (if they can come back strong ),who can completely charm an audience and use character to great effect ( and whose American in Paris I've been drooling to see for a year, now ).

    I'll really be watching to see what comes out of the K/C camp , because I'm not quite sure what to think of what's coming out choreographically, there...the Camerlengo programs I've really loved in the last couple of years have been the ones he's done for singles. It's hard to say ... F/S had health issues, accidents , etc , which made it hard to fully appreciate their programs ; I liked their 2010 FD alright , but it really didn't wow me like some others. Using them as an example , I don't know what to predict , or hope for P/B. Their last year's programs were so perfect for them. They listed Zhulin , Najarro and Julien Cottereau as choreographers , but no breakdown of who choreographed what...but there was plenty in those programs that didn't say "Zhulin" to me..so will they use either of the other 2 again ?

    Same thing with W/P..Shae Lynn and Camerlengo jointly credited, but no break down..and while I thought their SD was a knockout ( and esp. the quickstep was very ShaeLynn-like)their FD, in itself, was fairly mundane . I feel (maybe) a sort of pedestrian reliance on movie themes, etc. from that school...or it's at least that I've yet to see a FD that really stood out, that I can think of. Maybe someone else is aware of some that I'm not ?

    I don't feel at all good about I/K and their move to Morozov..I'm not a fan of his choreography. I find it pretty cheesy most of the time ,and relying too much on hype and sex appeal ,often at the expense of difficulty...B/S and R/T both deserve better choreo than they were given this last year.

    In Canada ,things are now simplified somewhat, at least until we get to see if Vanessa and / or Paul manage to partner up in time to make a good showing at Canadians. V/M will have good choreo..P/I had good choreo last year , but maybe music ( Durante ) was a bit problematic ( now I'm being picky , because the program itself was lovely ) and I think their team actively searches for good outside choreo , while I think Pavol Porac could be a bit of a hidden treasure. I sincerely hope R/H get away from Africa..I'm interested to see H/G , since I think W/L are making some good strides choreographically ,as well as as coaches ( it will also be interesting to see how much Orford/Williams will have progressed ). Arnold /Trojek had some Camerlengo choreo last year, so I'm looking for them, too. This brings me to the other thing I wanted to ask :

    Because of V/M being absent at last year's nationals , funding was extended to include six couples after they returned ,instead of straight top 5 , which was only fair to those who had won their top 5 spot. Now , with C/P splitting , what happens with the funding, I'd like to know....Will Arnold and Trojeck now be funded , since they were the 6th couple at nationals ( I'm sure they could put it to good use ), or will SC claw back the funding to 5 , or do C/P get to split it between them even though they've split ?
    Last edited by colleen o'neill; 06-10-2011 at 05:18 PM.

  10. #130
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  11. #131
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    Has anyone heard the status of Nora H, haven't heard anything for awhile about her. And also what about Tobias & Stagniunas , have they indeed split? I read somewhere probably on FSU that F&S are not training at the moment but still may continue later in the season, can anyone verify this? Okay one last question ; WHAT the heck is going on in Dance??

  12. #132
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    I'm wondering if the F/S situation is because of the Pro-Am thing ? That's another wrinkle..

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by colleen o'neill View Post
    I feel that with D/W trying to defend their title, we'll see a return to their strengths..dramatic theme , etc...
    I've been thinking about this specifically. With the ISU pushing pure dance programs, what will D/W do? Is there a way to return to their strengths with this new trend? The push for more dance is not as favorable to them as it is for other teams, since D/W are mainly known for their dramatic, thematic programs. Over the years, it seems that North American teams tended to be more ballroom based and D/W are oddly one of the more dramatic ones - Russian-lite I might even say.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by cotillion View Post
    Has anyone heard the status of Nora H, haven't heard anything for awhile about her. And also what about Tobias & Stagniunas , have they indeed split? I read somewhere probably on FSU that F&S are not training at the moment but still may continue later in the season, can anyone verify this? Okay one last question ; WHAT the heck is going on in Dance??
    Tobias / Stagniunas haven't split, as they got a GP assignment. Nora Hoffmann / Max Zavozin also.

  15. #135
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Here are the GP assignments in dance:

    Skate America:
    Ralph/Hill
    Pechalat/Bourzat
    Zhiganshina/Gazsi
    Hoffman/Zavozin
    Monko/Khaliavin
    Davis/White
    USA TBD
    USA TBD

    Skate Canada
    Virtue/Moir
    Weaver/Poje
    TBD Canada
    Mysliveckova/Novak
    Pechalat/Bourzat
    Capellini/Lanotte
    Pushkash Guerreiro
    Riazanova/Tkachenko

    Cup of China
    Yu/Wang
    TDB China
    Carron/Jones
    Coomes/Buckland
    Bobrova/Soloviev
    Lichtman/Copely
    Shibutani/Shibutani

    NHK
    Paul/Islam
    Weaver/Poje
    Zhiganshina/Gazsi
    Alessandrini / Vaturi
    Ilinykh / Katsalapov
    Kriengkrairut/Giuletti-Schmitt
    Shibutani /Shibutani
    TBD Japan (presumably Reed/Reed) Japan left this TBD very late last season

    TEB
    Virtue/Moir
    Huang/Zheng
    Pechalat/Bourzat
    TBD France
    Capellini / Lanotte
    Gorshkova /Butikov
    Ilinyk/Katsalapov
    Hurtado/Diaz

    Cup of Russia
    Weaver / Poje
    Carron / Jones
    Reed/Reed
    Tobias / Stagniunas
    Bobrova / Soloviev
    Riazanova / Tkachenko
    TBD Russia
    Davis / White

    I'm surprised to see Davis & White picked Cup of Russia.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 06-27-2011 at 02:27 PM.

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