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Thread: What will the 2011/2012 season bring us in ladies?

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    (I think the US gave up on them when Michelle Kwan lost to Josee Chouinard at the Pro-Am Skate Canada event... just a theory on that one. When a has been - and an almost unknown to the average viewer - beats out the goddess of all skating... well...)

    Quote Originally Posted by blue dog
    Some viewers were annoyed because credentials seemed to have decided the winners in the ladies' event. The format was three weekends--a program per weekend. Katarina Witt won the ladies with doubles, and with her usual "flirt with the audience" routine. Many (including me) were annoyed, when Rory Flack Burghardt had three different programs, had triples up to the flip, and was very entertaining...finished fifth behind Witt, Manley, Sumners, and another skater.
    What do people want? How do you make them all happy?

  2. #47
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krenseby View Post
    What year was this and how well did Chouinard skate as opposed to Kwan? Any YouTube clips?
    I couldn't find either performance on You Tube. It was the 2000 Sears Canadian open. Each skater did two programs, a "technical program" and an "interpretive program." For her technical program Michelle did her East of Eden short program and led that segment. In the interpretative program Michelle gave a rather perfunctory performance of her exhibition program to Beautiful World.

    Josee's interpretive program was a little Lori Nichol gem to Humoresque where she portrayed a Harlequin releasing a baby bird. She fell on her hardest element, a triple Lutz. Technically, Michelle was superior. But the judges felt that since this was the "interpretive" program, Josee actually interpreted the music while Michelle's program was just generic pretty skating.

    Frank Carroll was quite irate at the result.

    Sarah Hughes was third (Bye Bye Blackbird ), followed by Jennifer Robinson, Lu Chen, and Surya Bonaly.

    By the way, the best resource for results of those old competitions in the Golden Skate archives, accessed form the Golden Skate home page.

    http://www.goldenskate.com/competitions/proam/can.shtml

  3. #48
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    ^^^^ What did Lulu do? How did she lose out on interpretation?!

    Josee had nerve problems and never performed to her ability in "amateur" competitions but she found success as a professional and won a few pro competitions.

  4. #49
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post

    The minimum age for the 2011-12 JGP is 13 years old by June 30, 2011. Julia Lipnitskaya and Daria Medvedeva will be old enough, according to a post on FSU. I'll check on Radionova.

    ETA: Elena Radionova will be JGP age-eligible in the 2012-13 season, according to another post on FSU.
    Thanx alot! Shy about Helena, one more season to wait, she is really good and my little fav!

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    ^^^^ What did Lulu do? How did she lose out on interpretation?!
    Relying on memory, Lulu was not in competitive shape going into this competition. She continued only one more year in pro-ams and did not seem to have the motivation to keep up her training. I did like her Take Five program in general, but I do not think she performed either of her programs well at this event, both lacking technical content.

    Surya Bonaly skated to an almost comical screeching rendition of "March With Me."

    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring
    Josee had nerve problems and never performed to her ability in "amateur" competitions but she found success as a professional and won a few pro competitions.
    There was a big write-up of this event in the newspapers, with quotes from Josee from a speech that she gave the next day to the children that she was coaching at the time. All about how nervous she was to be facing the World Champion and she didn't think she had a chance to win, but if you work hard and follow your dream anything is possible, etc.

  6. #51
    Rooting for the divas with Kwanford Spun Silver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    That's true I do not read every post in a thread, but this was not the first time she attacked me. It gets tiresome and unfortunaely I lost my patience with constant attacks. I agree with you I only make matters worse. I welcome explanations where I erred, but I have never seen that from her. It would be nice if she explained why she brought up again that Midori was skating as an adult skater when I was suggesting a Retired Champion Competition in the future.
    Joe, thank you for taking my post seriously and not personally. I appreciate it. I would still like to defend mskater, though, since you are continuing to criticize him or her. I don't have a clue about the history of his or her posts, but I didn't see anything like an attack in the post you are referring to. The two of you seemed to be talking about different things, perhaps without realizing it. Not something worth getting upset about, IMHO.

    Anyway, back on topic, I have to say that as a fan I'd be much more interested in seeing a Retired Champion Competition than a regular "adult" competition... and if I were an "adult" skater (which sounds sort of porny, LOL), I would not be too happy to find myself competing against Midori Ito!!

  7. #52
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    Anyway, back on topic, I have to say that as a fan I'd be much more interested in seeing a Retired Champion Competition than a regular "adult" competition...
    I had a chance to attend the U.S. adult championships one year, and it was really cool. There are sessions for different styles of programs, like entertaining/happy/flirty versus serious artistic, etc. My two biggest impressions were (a) how good some of these essentially recreational skters were, and (b) how really, really, really good the elite competitive skaters are.

    and if I were an "adult" skater (which sounds sort of porny, LOL), I would not be too happy to find myself competing against Midori Ito!!
    Truly. (But you could get her autograph. )

  8. #53
    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    IMO Michelle was wuz robbed at the 2000 Sears Canadian Open. Both Michelle's SP and LP were far superior to Josee's programs. Carroll was irate for a reason.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by demarinis5 View Post
    IMO Michelle was wuz robbed at the 2000 Sears Canadian Open. Both Michelle's SP and LP were far superior to Josee's programs. Carroll was irate for a reason.

    well, lori choreographed that program for josee, and beautiful world for michelle. a harbinger of things to come-- a sign that michelle should start looking elsewhere?

    i actually count josee among my favorites, but that humoresque program wasn't even as charming as her american in paris program. or her poeme by secret garden program. not to mention kismet... i don't care about the jumps--a program need not be cleanly skated to have its charm shine through.

    did jennifer robinson skate to the vocal version of summer of '42 at the same event? she skated that at _one_ of the canadian opens if so, i preferred jennifer's program to both MK's and josee's. just preferred the choreography--i'm not talking about the standings.
    Last edited by skfan; 06-09-2011 at 11:00 PM.

  10. #55
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    ^^^
    I'm talking about Did it make Money? Were the viewers interested in the frolicking comps? They did leave, and no sponsors, so did the networks. No? Some fans have to realize that figure skaters have limited celebrity status. But hold on Toni. Sylvia has posted a new thread for a return of exciting and innovative competitions.
    yes they made money, or they wouldn't have had the purses they did "back in the day" when many of the "top named" skaters were household names. Kurt Browning beat out Wayne Gretsky in sportsfans polls in Canada during the height of his skating! Scott Hamilton, Brian Boitano, Hamill, yamaguchi, Kwan... they were also household names during the height of professional skating... Scott Hamilton is still considered bankable by NBC or he'd not have been someone they pulled from CBS (they had Button, but chose Hamilton instead, no idea why).

    As for his new venture into the competitive arena... I don't see it working if it's going to be pro am, but that's just me... I don't see why it needs to be the old dogs vs the puppies.

    Quote Originally Posted by blue dog View Post
    They had something similar to this in 1998, called "Legends of Figure Skating." The competitors' list were many of the winners in the 70's, 80's and 90's, with some unknowns thrown in. Some viewers were annoyed because credentials seemed to have decided the winners in the ladies' event. The format was three weekends--a program per weekend. Katarina Witt won the ladies with doubles, and with her usual "flirt with the audience" routine. Many (including me) were annoyed, when Rory Flack Burghardt had three different programs, had triples up to the flip, and was very entertaining...finished fifth behind Witt, Manley, Sumners, and another skater.
    As much as I love that Rory skated from Alaska... she is so not at the same level as the other ladies that she skated against/with... kinda like I love Keegan, but until he gets more polish (and decent choreography) he's never going to break top five overall at nationals.

  11. #56
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    Anyway, back on topic, I have to say that as a fan I'd be much more interested in seeing a Retired Champion Competition than a regular "adult" competition... and if I were an "adult" skater (which sounds sort of porny, LOL), I would not be too happy to find myself competing against Midori Ito!!
    One has to realize that topics stray away from the main point. The Ladies in 2011/1012 have stray away into yesteryear stars. I think Midori Ito deserved a topic of just her. Adult Skating, too could use a topic on its own. Reminising(s) about Josie is par for long topics, but it beats movies.

  12. #57
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    As per FSU (which is as per a press conference held), Laura Lepisto is back to training well and will compete at Nebelhorn.

  13. #58
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    My point with regard to Midori competing in an adult competition is that she doesn't seem to WANT to bring it back as a "retired elite skater competition". In the press release that came out on Yahoo Japan, she said something to the effect that she wanted to show people that even as you get older, if you still love something you can participate. You know, for fun, without having the same level of pressure that being in some made for TV pro-am or World level competition would bring. That seemed to be part of what was lacking for her (the fun) when she tried to come back before the 1998 Olympics (along with her health issues).

    I didn't appreciate what I perceived as a slam on adult figure skating that was brought up with regard to Midori being an "exception" or that only ice dance can be enjoyed over the age of 40. The largest groups at most adult competitions are 31-40 and 41-50 and I am talking FREESTYLE events, not dance. There have been a few very high level skaters return and take part. They will say that the best part of it is the comeraderie of the events, as will National, World, and Olympic level judges. There are also a number of very well known and respected coaches who are thrilled to have competitive adults in their stable of students, most notably Charlie Tickner, who is at every US Adult Nationals running around all week with skaters on both rinks, at practices, etc. all the time.

    As it is, Midori's in a group of 2 skaters and if I were the other skater, I would be THRILLED just to share the ice with her and be second and to have my picture taken on the podium with her, even if she won by 50 or 100 points, so long as I skated MY best.

  14. #59
    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post

    As it is, Midori's in a group of 2 skaters and if I were the other skater, I would be THRILLED just to share the ice with her and be second and to have my picture taken on the podium with her, even if she won by 50 or 100 points, so long as I skated MY best.
    And in the event that I outskate Midori and somehow eek out a .000001 win, I will hold my head up high for the next twenty years!

    GO MIDORI!

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I couldn't find either performance on You Tube. It was the 2000 Sears Canadian open. Each skater did two programs, a "technical program" and an "interpretive program." For her technical program Michelle did her East of Eden short program and led that segment. In the interpretative program Michelle gave a rather perfunctory performance of her exhibition program to Beautiful World.

    Josee's interpretive program was a little Lori Nichol gem to Humoresque where she portrayed a Harlequin releasing a baby bird. She fell on her hardest element, a triple Lutz. Technically, Michelle was superior. But the judges felt that since this was the "interpretive" program, Josee actually interpreted the music while Michelle's program was just generic pretty skating.

    Frank Carroll was quite irate at the result.

    Sarah Hughes was third (Bye Bye Blackbird ), followed by Jennifer Robinson, Lu Chen, and Surya Bonaly.

    By the way, the best resource for results of those old competitions in the Golden Skate archives, accessed form the Golden Skate home page.

    http://www.goldenskate.com/competitions/proam/can.shtml
    I remember how shocked I was at those results. I remember Rosalynn Sumners, the U.S. commentator, was at a loss for words. Then someone must have come to fill her in, because she started explaining how the judges had been asked to sit in on a class that explained how to judge for creativity or somesuch, and they were using that criterion to make their decision. In other words, what we saw was not necessarily what they were being asked to measure.

    Chouinard was a charming, incredibly expressive skater with more ability than confidence, and I generally enjoyed her programs (though I thought Michelle should have won that day). She must have been a joy to choreograph for. I still ache for her because of the dirty trick fate played on her in the 1994 Olympics. That Typhoid Mary, Tonya Harding, having already jeopardized Nancy Kerrigan's Olympic chances, then took out Chouinard. Harding broke her shoelace or somesuch, and asked the judges for a moment to repair her skate. The judges decreed that yes, Harding could have a time-out, but the next skater MUST then skate right away or forfeit a chance to do her long program. The next skater was Josée. So out went Chouinard, even though I'm sure she was completely unsettled by the change. Really such a shame that Josée became another casualty of Tonya Harding's chaotic tenure in the skating spotlight.

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