A much better Sasha Spiral

BravesSkateFan · Dec 10, 2003

Wow...Sasha's spiral looks so much better in this pic. I think it was taken right when she was getting into position, but somehow I find it more attractive. The arms aren't so stiff, and the knee isn't hyperextended either. Its much prettier this way.

http://www.sashafans.com/media/gallery/2003skateamerica/long/scfs02.jpg

chuckm · Dec 10, 2003

...but her hands are balled up into fists!:\

BravesSkateFan · Dec 10, 2003

well yeah, like i said, I think its her getting into position, so its obviously not a "complete" spiral. i just thought that the overall body line and position looked better in this picture.

registered · Dec 10, 2003

It's a beautiful Swan-like spiral. Thanks for posting! :love:

Tonichelle · Dec 10, 2003

it's right before she hits the crescendo of the music that she's accenting... whenever she goes into a spiral she has her fingers accent the music....

Joesitz (RIP) · Dec 10, 2003

The picture looks great as most posed pictures do. Sasha does indeed have the flexibility to place the free leg of her spirals high.

On a personal note, the European style of holding the blade in a spiral (usually it is executed very quickly) and the Kerrigan style of placing the hand on the thigh of the free skate, just don't get to me. And being a ballet fan, I can't imagine a ballerina holding her leg in any position with her hand unless it is for affect.

Sasha's extensions are fabulous. When the edges come, there will be more gasps of ahhhs, including mine.

Joe

Ladskater · Dec 11, 2003

BravesSkateFan:

Apparently Sasha got lower marks for her spiral at Skate Canada so she worked on it (I always thought her spiral was great anyway). I guess there is always "room for improvement."

Rgirl · Dec 11, 2003

Ladskater said:
BravesSkateFan:
Apparently Sasha got lower marks for her spiral at Skate Canada so she worked on it (I always thought her spiral was great anyway). I guess there is always "room for improvement."

Sasha's spiral sequence was a Level 2 at SA and Skate Canada, but she got +2 or +3 from every judge, so it's not that her marks were low. In order to get her spiral up to a Level 3, Tarasova and Sasha made it a change-edge spiral (which she did last year; don't know why she didn't continue to do it this year) and also added a change of position in the fan spiral.

As for the photo, it's not a posed position, it's a photo taken while Sasha is moving (note the lack of focus). As BraveSkateFan said, she is moving into her full 180-degree split spiral position. But I would never call it a "Much Better Sasha Spiral." BraveSkateFan can have that opinion, of course, but don't pronounce it as if it's a fact. If a skater can do a 180-degree arabesque spiral with ease, good extension, good hip position, and good edges, I LOVE it. Sasha has done arabeques in her programs (not spirals) that were only slightly above the hip and they were lovely too, IMO. One of Sasha's strengths is her line and dance ability. I've read posts where people have called Sasha's 180-degree split spiral "ugly" and "unnatural" and even that she should not be allowed to do it. That's their prerogative to have that opinion. Of course there is always room for improvement, as in deeper edges and more speed, both of which Sasha has improved this season, but I'm sure she can do more. But all the hulabaloo about who's spiral is better, Michelle's or Sasha's or some other skater's, whether Sasha's spiral is "unnatural," and whether she should be "allowed" to do it just baffles me. Like it or don't like it. It's a free country

Rgirl

Ladskater · Dec 11, 2003

Rgirl:

I knew there was a better explanation. Debbi Wilkes mentioned it in her comments. I guess to clarify - my comment was meant to be general - I am not feeling well at the moment.

Anyway, what ever improvement she made will add to her already splendid spiral.

BravesSkateFan · Dec 12, 2003

quote:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But all the hulabaloo about who's spiral is better, Michelle's or Sasha's or some other skater's, whether Sasha's spiral is "unnatural," and whether she should be "allowed" to do it just baffles me. Like it or don't like it. It's a free country
----------------------------------------------------------------

Woah! wait a minute. I never said that she shouldn't be allowed to do it or that it wasn't natural, nor did I say it was a fact that this spiral was better. I just posted it because I thought that her sprial position in this picture (even though she was just getting into position) was more appealing than her normal spiral. I used to think that her 180 split was ugly, and though its defintely not my favorite leg position, I realized that that wasn't what I really found the problem to be with her sprials. When she does her sprial the knee of her skating leg is hyperextended, and I don't like her arm positions. In this photo her knee was not hyperextended and her arms, though certanly not perfect considering the context of the photo, are ina much softer better (IMO) postion. That was all I was saying. I wasn't saying that sasha shouldn't do the sprial whatever way she want's, I was just offering up my opinion, which last I checked we were allowed to do. So I hope that clears things up.

__________________

Mathman · Dec 12, 2003

I think Sasha has her fists balled up like that on purpose, to suggest that when she pops up into her spiral position as quickly as she does, this is actually a power move, like a weightlifter doing a clean-and-jerk. Once she's in position, then she softens her hands and holds the classic finger position very nicely.

(You know the one -- all five fingers nicely separated, and each on a different level, pinky highest, ring finger and index finger about the same, middle finger markedly depressed... :love:

)

Mathman

Piel · Dec 12, 2003

AKA the classic Michelle Kwan hand position....which we all know is perfection.

BravesSkateFan · Dec 12, 2003

Mathman said:
I think Sasha has her fists balled up like that on purpose, to suggest that when she pops up into her spiral position as quickly as she does, this is actually a power move, like a weightlifter doing a clean-and-jerk. Once she's in position, then she softens her hands and holds the classic finger position very nicely.

(You know the one -- all five fingers nicely separated, and each on a different level, pinky highest, ring finger and index finger about the same, middle finger markedly depressed... )

Mathman

huh? arent' her fingers usually all on the same plane. I'm gonna have to go back at look, but I'm sure they are.

Mathman · Dec 12, 2003

Hmm. You've got a point. Maybe I spoke too soon.

http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/archive/results/sasha cohen ska8usa2001.jpg

http://www.cmmskating.com/photos/sasha5.gif

http://www.sashacohen.com/photos/sashapuzzle.gif

Mathman

Rgirl · Dec 13, 2003

BravesSkateFan,
First, sorry I've been misspelling your name. Just noticed it's BravesSkateFan as in "Brave's Skate Fan" not "Brave Skate Fan>" My boo-boo. Anyway, I didn't mean YOU were the one saying Sasha's 180-degree spiral was ugly or unnatural. I should have been more clear in saying I'd read that on another forum by no posters from GS. My boo-boo again. But it is nice of you to clarify what you meant anyway. I think most of us have things that some skaters do that just annoy us for reasons that are difficult to articulate. Sometimes you just don't like something a skater does and that's just the way it is. I know I have my pecidillos, so to speak, so I would never intend to get after somebody for having theirs. If it sounded like I was doing that to you, my boo-boo again. Sorry and I hope we are sympatico now, yes?

Mathman,
As for Sashas fingers, which is what spirals are REALLY all about

--can we please look at videos instead of photos if we are going to evaluate finger placement? A photo is a picture of just a split second in time (not to mention some split seconds from a couple of years ago) and isn't what we really love in skating is the combination of movement and position? Besides, I must cite Terry Gannon's response to Sasha's spiral at Trophee Lalique, "Just look at her fingers!" in the context of "how beautiful." Not that I'm trying to start a Sasha vs. Michelle "Best Fingers on Her Spiral" contest. To me, Michelle and Sasha's use of their fingers and hands while they skate are equally beautiful in their own way, as are their spirals. JMO.
Rgirl

BravesSkateFan · Dec 13, 2003

yep we're good. I just wanted to make sure my point was clear.

and actually its Braves Skate Fan as in I'm a fan of Skating and the Braves

LOL If you want to make it easier you can just call me Felicia

Mathman · Dec 13, 2003

That's the whole point, RGirl. If your fingers are correctly positioned they look good at every moment and from whatever angle they are viewed. That's the whole point of the different plane thing. I got the pictures by doing a google image search on Sasha Cohen and taking the first three pictures of a spiral that popped up. OK, no fair. So I just went to Sasha's web site for the definitive spiral photo. Here it is (it's yours for $12.00 from the SashaShoppe). What do you think?

http://store.yahoo.com/sashacohen/spiralphoto.html

http://www.puresportsart.com/warehouse/mkwan98-1.jpg

http://www.icesk8.com/clipart/9720611.jpg

To me, this is attention to detail.

Mathman

Cactus · Dec 14, 2003

Some call it a COE spiral, I call it leg lift with a wobble.

Pookie · Dec 14, 2003

Even on video yesterday, I don't think Sasha's fingers quite accomplished the "each on a different level."

Great pictures, Mathman. Ah, those fingertips . . .

Pati · Dec 15, 2003

I don't think this one :http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/archive/results/sasha cohen ska8usa2001.jpg is a spiral pic. It looks more like a jump landing to me.

A much better Sasha Spiral

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