Plushenko to Resume His Eligibility to skate ISU Competitions

Joesitz (RIP) · Jun 14, 2011

Although this was reported by a network, there was no mention of the matter in the ISU website.

Further the article did not give any reasons for the ISU making an exception to its own Rules.

Will it pave the way for other skaters who are no longer eligible for ISU competitions?

seniorita · Jun 14, 2011

Joe

please read the rules, its own rules give the skaters the right of reinstatement. No exception was made. It is under the paragraphs 102 {2(i) and 7} and 103.

If you really want I can post them again, but the resume is that in case an athlete skates without permission to a sactioned event, he loses his eligibility under case I) with a chance of reinstatement if he applies via his federation. And this is all what Plushenko did. It is not a loss of eligibility for good. There are three cases to lose your eligibility and only the first one gives you the reistatement right. I dont know the other skaters how they lost their eligibility and what ISU announced for them but if you skate at Thin Ice for example that is an unsactioned event you cannot apply for reinstantement..Isu had declared a year ago that Plushenko was ineligible under I) case.

The announcement is in Official Russian Federation Site for now.
rough translation :
Evgeni Plushenko rights restored for performances at the ISU competitions

Today, June 12 in Amsterdam, the ISU Council at its meeting voted unanimously "for" recovery Evgeni Plushenko in the status of "permitted" (eligibility) athlete. This means that Evgeni can begin to compete in all competitions conducted under the auspices of the International Skating Union (ISU) already in the coming season.

A year ago, to Evgeni was denied the right to perform at the ISU tournaments due to violations of the rules of the International Skating Union.
---

ISu will probably take this out with the rest of the meeting''s decisions.

On as side note, have you heard any other sport punishing for life its athletes if they didnt caught dopped, attacked another athlete, killed a judge etc?

ciocio · Jun 14, 2011

seniorita said:
Joe please read the rules, its own rules give the skaters the right of reinstatement. No exception was made. It is under the paragraphs 102 {2(i) and 7} and 103.

Do you still have patience to post the eligibility rules???? :bow:

Joesitz (RIP) · Jun 14, 2011

The way you explained it. There is a rule about skating at a non ISU event where one loses his eligibility for future ISU competitions. Correct?

However, a Federation can reinstate his eligibility if it wants to which would mean the Federation has the right to overide a decision of the ISU. Correct?

Applying for a reinstatement is not the same as an approved reinstatement. That is what is bothing my head! There is no reason listed for the exception to the rule. Correct? It's just done for applying.

Senorita. I have no qualms about returning retired skaters to compete in ISU competitions, including Evgeni, but there exists a rule which it seems to me was not considered.

ciocio · Jun 14, 2011

Joesitz said:
The way you explained it. There is a rule about skating at a non ISU event where one loses his eligibility for future ISU competitions. Correct?

However, a Federation can reinstate his eligibility if it wants to which would mean the Federation has the right to overide a decision of the ISU. Correct?

Applying for a reinstatement is not the same as an approved reinstatement. That is what is bothing my head! There is no reason listed for the exception to the rule. Correct? It's just done for applying.

Senorita. I have no qualms about returning retired skaters to compete in ISU competitions, including Evgeni, but there exists a rule which it seems to me was not considered.

Provisional Allotments of ISU Championships and Reinstatement of Evgeny Plyuschenko
14 Jun 2011 15:10
Based on a request of the Figure Skating Federation of Russia and in line with the applicable ISU Regulations, the ISU Council agreed to reinstate the Russian Figure Skater Mr. Evgeny Plyuschenko with immediate effect who will therefore be allowed to compete again in ISU sanctioned competitions including the Olympic Winter Games.

Rules don't explain what happens after a skater applies for reinstatement, probably that's what bothers you. :think: The reasons to reinstate skaters or deny them the reinstatement don't appear anywhere, we don't know what criteria they use when they analyze someone's application.

seniorita · Jun 14, 2011

Joesitz said:
The way you explained it. There is a rule about skating at a non ISU event where one loses his eligibility for future ISU competitions. Correct?

yes. there are three cases to lose the eligibility I) if the skater skates to a sactioned event without the approval of his federation(plu case), ii) skates to a non sactioned event and iii) I dont remember now.
From the three cases only the i) gives the skater the right to apply fro reinstatement and he can do it only once, if Plushenko is banned again in the future he cant apply again any more.

However, a Federation can reinstate his eligibility if it wants to which would mean the Federation has the right to overide a decision of the ISU. Correct?

No

. The ISU and only ISU decides about eligibility, Federation is only involved for that the skater cannot apply alone for reinstatement but must have the blessings and support of his federation, otherwise the application is not acceptable.

Applying for a reinstatement is not the same as an approved reinstatement. That is what is bothing my head! There is no reason listed for the exception to the rule. Correct? It's just done for applying.

It is true that ISU doesnt say the reasons of reinstatement, but -and thats only my opinion- when a skater has just skated in a show, I find it a bit too much to ban him forever , when these stuff happen in other sports only in very serious accusations, like dopping, or illegal stuff. I think if fs wants to be called a sport and not a soap opera they should let their athletes free to do what they want concerning shows but thats irrelevant now.

Quiz: Do you remember why ODa was banned for a year? And why they banned Staviski forever?Two different situations. How long they should have banned Evgeni for skating in KOI then? forever?

Olympia · Jun 14, 2011

That's an interesting question you asked, Seniorita, about whether any other sport banned its athletes for something small and non-criminal. I wonder if there is any other sport that has the same setup skating does, where all the important medals and records are in the non-professional division but there are tempting venues in the professional division. Track and field has its competitive glories all in the "amateur" section, but there isn't really a televised pro circuit. Same with gymnastics. On the other hand, team sports like basketball and football have important events in both college-level and pro ranks, but you don't just get invited to appear on a pro team as a guest while you're in college. Hmmm. Maybe skating is the only sport set up like that.

I can't remember what ruling was made against Staviski. I assumed he was banned from skating forever, but didn't he and Denkova perform somewhere after the awful driving incident? Presumably in some sort of pro event. I haven't kept up on this situation in detail because it's too heartbreaking to read about. I loved this couple, and what happened is such a dreadful--and avoidable--tragedy.

Joesitz (RIP) · Jun 14, 2011

I get the feeling that senorita is ok with the decision by the ISU not to give a reason for an exception to a Rule. I could accept the decision if I knew the reason for the decision. Apparently, the ISU works in strange ways. It's Rules are strange to begin with.

The ISU has so many inexpliable decisions. I could list many but that would be another thread.

waxel · Jun 14, 2011

I don't care why he's allowed to compete --- I had just hoped never to have to watch him again.

ImaginaryPogue · Jun 14, 2011

You don't have to watch him. You can change the channel.

Mathman · Jun 14, 2011

Joe, here are the rules about loss of eligibility and reinstatement, from the ISU Constitution (see Seniorita's post 2). There is really no ambiquity about them.

On this page

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,4844-153889-171105-nav-list,00.html

click on “Constitution and General Rules 2010 (pdf)” Scroll down to page 84, Section B, Rule 102, paragraph 2(i) for a description of the rule that Plushenko broke that resulted in the decision of the council to declare him ineligible.

To read the applicable rules regarding reinstatement, scroll down further to page.88, Rule 103, paragraphs 2, 3, 4, and 5.

Basically, the ISU Constitution gives the Council pretty much carte blanche in making both the decision to rescind eligibility and in the decision to reinstate it. Note the language "as it sees fit" in paragraph 4.

To me, the most interesting part of the eligibility rules is this (Section B, Rule 102, “Eligibility Stautus,” (ii), page 83):

”the condition of eligibility is made for the adequate protection of the economic and other interests of the ISU…

In other words, they don’t really care what you do as long as your sin does not threaten the ISU’s bottom line in some way.

seniorita · Jun 15, 2011

Joesitz said:
I get the feeling that senorita is ok with the decision by the ISU not to give a reason for an exception to a Rule. I could accept the decision if I knew the reason for the decision. Apparently, the ISU works in strange ways. It's Rules are strange to begin with.

The ISU has so many inexpliable decisions. I could list many but that would be another thread.

To me, the whole situation was a farse. Of course at the end Plushenko broke the rules and he should have been ineligible, but the whole backstage before, how they gave permission for his show and then took it back few days before, threatening the RF that if they give him permission it would affect the whole russian team and Rf taking the permission back. WHich skater would have backed off his own show 3 days before and with all the tickets sold out?
Conclusion, they sent a skater for vacations one year, he wouldnt compete anyway this season and ISU knew so it was not such a harm, more like Look, if your skating plans are not profidable for us, we can ban you, we did it to Plushenko. A demonstration of power of ISU over RF and RF over Plu and their bad relationship..

Big Deal · Jun 15, 2011

It is NOT a nice story to put the power-war in front of everybody.
It gives an impression that this sport as a whole has even less eligibality and crediability than in the reality.

It is a big fuss about nothing. Plush wants to get more money, and if his name is up in the news, it helps him to do so.
It is simple like this....

Joesitz (RIP) · Jun 15, 2011

Unfortunately, I have never enjoyed his skating. He did do big jumps which to me are not artistic but certainly valid on the tech side. The pompous air about him attracted a lot of screaming girls, which I believe made the judges nervous. Those scores in the 2006 Olys were so over the top in general, although his competitors were not much better. It was as if the judges were ensuring his win in case another competitor would skate better. For me, He won that Oly which was probably the worst contest I have ever seen. He tried again in 2010 but lost to a skater who had no Quad but had all the other point gatherings of the CoP.

Competitors of today, not only have varied Quads but have all the point gatherings as well. He will judge before hand and decide not to compete against them.

I believe retired skaters have a right to come back for a last hurrah but that does not mean I am anxious to see them again. Some, I do. Plushenko, no.

seniorita · Jun 15, 2011

Following the right procedures for ISU decisions and be anxious to see him is completely different tasks.

Now if a skater of a less powerful federation is banned and asks for reinstatement he has a previous decision to make his case. (i dont know how this is called in english)

bigdeal said:
It is a big fuss about nothing. Plush wants to get more money, and if his name is up in the news, it helps him to do so. It is simple like this....

he must have been making pretty good money before as well, remember he is in shows since ever. But if the whole thing was made up by ISU because they were hoping to make a skater even more rich, ah well, fine by me :laugh:

Olympia · Jun 15, 2011

seniorita said:
Following the right procedures for ISU decisions and be anxious to see him is completely different tasks. Now if a skater of a less powerful federation is banned and asks for reinstatement he has a previous decision to make his case. (i dont know how this is called in english)

he must have been making pretty good money before as well, remember he is in shows since ever. But if the whole thing was made up by ISU because they were hoping to make a skater even more rich, ah well, fine by me

The word is precedent, Seniorita.

That's an interesting point about another skater from a less powerful federation. I'm sure you're right.

Mathman · Jun 15, 2011

I agree with BigDeal. This is not a big deal.

Plushenko committed a minor infraction of the rules, they slapped his wrist, he served his time, his case came up for "parole" and that was the end of it

Joesitz (RIP) · Jun 15, 2011

^^^
Why do you say it is a minor infraction? That is your opinion, although you don't say imo. Please explain how he served his time.

We're talking about principle here and it seems you want to avoid that with your humor.

seniorita · Jun 15, 2011

^Because he didnt get caught dopped and he didnt kill the president, he just skated to a show without permission after withdrawing from worlds, got banned for a year and thats all. Oda was arrested driving drunk and stayed away a year, Staviski killed a person by driving drunk and was banned for life,Harding attacked another skater, you think these were minor cases but PLushenko should be punished with life sentence because he skated a show? ok.
What you call humor, I see it as common sense

Ptichka · Jun 15, 2011

MathM, I think "interests of ISU" are indeed more than just financial. The sport benefits from having well known names compete in GP and other events. This is not just about money - people tune in to watch a name they recognize and end up getting acquainted with the up-and-commers.

Not eager to see Plushenko back - but see absolutely no problem with him being reinstated.

Plushenko to Resume His Eligibility to skate ISU Competitions

Joesitz (RIP)

seniorita

ciocio

Joesitz (RIP)

ciocio

seniorita

Olympia

Joesitz (RIP)

waxel

ImaginaryPogue

Mathman

seniorita

Big Deal

Joesitz (RIP)

seniorita

Olympia

Mathman

Joesitz (RIP)

seniorita

Ptichka

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