U.S. Figure Skating reprimands, fines Rachael Flatt

skfan · Jun 15, 2011

Mathman said:
Doin' his job.

I love it! As far as anyone can discover, in the 90-year history of the United States Figure Skating Association, this is the first time ever that a skater has been fined. (Evidently the fine will be taken out of the envelope funding money that they were going to give her next year.)

Christopher Bowman was never fined, for all his transgressions against the sport.

why did the usfsa have to rush this email to hersh before they came to some decision against tom z? IMO they would have been better served figuring out what to do in both cases then announcing both decisions. it doesn't look right that the man with the precedence for questionable behavior has yet to face any penalty, while a penalty has already been handed down to rachael.

rachael is not my favorite american skater but this feels extremely unfair to me. i can only imagine the anger rachael's parents must be feeling right now. someone here (jokingly?) said he wanted to see the USFSA try to pull rachael and then rachael could file a lawsuit a la tonya harding. i know rachael is no tonya but i'm wondering if the usfsa officials feel so protected by any paper work rachael signed that they could risk rachael's parents raising a heck of a stink.

if they handed down a penalty to rachael first because she hasn't got as many powerful people in skating watching out for her back, or because phil hersh kept bugging them, i find that reprehensible. again, i'm not saying that's what happened, but i am disturbed that rachael got all this press while nothing's been announced against tom z.

if it turns out they are gather data for a case for barring him permanently, doing something on that scale, then i will retract my objection to their announcing rachael's punishment separately and before tom z's.

janetfan · Jun 15, 2011

skfan said:
why did the usfsa have to rush this email to hersh before they came to some decision against tom z? IMO they would have been better served figuring out what to do in both cases then announcing both decisions. it doesn't look right that the man with the precedence for questionable behavior has yet to face any penalty, while a penalty has already been handed down to rachael.

rachael is not my favorite american skater but this feels extremely unfair to me. i can only imagine the anger rachael's parents must be feeling right now. someone here (jokingly?) said he wanted to see the USFSA try to pull rachael and then rachael could file a lawsuit a la tonya harding. i know rachael is no tonya but i'm wondering if the usfsa officials feel so protected by any paper work rachael signed that they could risk rachael's parents raising a heck of a stink.

if they handed down a penalty to rachael first because she hasn't got as many powerful people in skating watching out for her back, or because phil hersh kept bugging them, i find that reprehensible. again, i'm not saying that's what happened, but i am disturbed that rachael got all this press while nothing's been announced against tom z.

if it turns out they are gather data for a case for barring him permanently, doing something on that scale, then i will retract my objection to their announcing rachael's punishment separately and before tom z's.

A brief blog from Hersh HARDLY qualifies "as all this press."

I will check the NY Times tomorrow but seriously doubt if Flatt's situation will make any headlines.

Mathman · Jun 15, 2011

The person that I most would like to hear from is Rachael. We know that Phil Hersh and Frank Carroll have a burr up their pants over this, but I wonder how Rachael took the news. I know when I was in school I always felt really, really bad when I got a reprimand from the principal.

So far, Rachael's announced plans are to sign up for a full load of classes in chemical engineering at Stanford in the fall, taking a few days off here and there for the Grand Prix. I wonder if she will re-evaluate her skating plans after she sees the first week's homework.

janetfan · Jun 15, 2011

Mathman said:
The person that I most would like to hear from is Rachael. We know that Phil Hersh and Frank Carroll have a burr up their pants over this, but I wonder how Rachael took the news. I know when I was in school I always felt really, really bad when I got a reprimand from the principal.

So far, Rachael's announced plans are to sign up for a full load of classes in chemical engineering at Stanford in the fall, taking a few days off here and there for the Grand Prix. I wonder if she will re-evaluate her skating plans after she sees the first week's homework.

Do you really think getting a "reprimand" at high school is the same thing as representing your country at Intl skating competitions?

If so I guess I can see why we have contrasting opinions about this.

skfan · Jun 15, 2011

Hernando said:
Do you really think getting a "reprimand" at high school is the same thing as competing for your country at Intl skating competitions?

If so I guess I can see why we have contrasting opinions about this.

ok, i'm not quoting the right hernando quote here, but...

was it just yesterday that you were going on about the evil ruskies (in the thread about plushenko's reinstatement), now it's all for the team, none for the individual, and rachael has to sacrifice her chance to skate for the national team's good? IMO it would be more consistent to say, because the value of the USFS brand has declined as a result of rachael's action, and the USFSA invested good ol' american dollars in rachael flatt, or some similar rhetoric

you are right. a blurb by hersh doesn't constitute all that press. i must be confusing all the pre-mature 'she's dead in the water' talk with actual news print.

janetfan · Jun 15, 2011

skfan said:
you are right. a blurb by hersh doesn't constitute all that press. i must be confusing all the pre-mature 'she's dead in the water' talk with actual news print.

You do know the difference between chattter at a skating forum and the real news world.

Rachael Flatt is not news in the USA. For that matter neither is Evan, D/W, Yuna, or any of the current figure skaters.

But you already know that, right?

Spun Silver · Jun 16, 2011

The reprimand would have sufficed. It's not as if Rachael wasn't punished already by her disappointing performance and the bad press it got her. This is dumping on a skater who is probably already down in the dumps. And I have to say to Hernando: though I'm not unsympathetic to your argument, you are coming off as a little too vindictive toward a teenage girl. Eew.

Serious Business · Jun 16, 2011

I feel awful for Rachael. Despite her injuries this past season, I thought she really achieved a new artistic peak with her East of Eden SP. This excessive and (as per Hersh) unprecedented fine on an athlete seems downright vindictive. It seems likely to drive Rachael further away from the sport right when she had a huge breakthrough artistically.

janetfan · Jun 16, 2011

Spun Silver said:
The reprimand would have sufficed. It's not as if Rachael wasn't punished already by her disappointing performance and the bad press it got her. This is dumping on a skater who is probably already down in the dumps. And I have to say to Hernando: though I'm not unsympathetic to your argument, you are coming off as a little too vindictive toward a teenage girl. Eew.

Fair enough Spun, but my disappointment/disgust is really towards Tom Z.
My arguments here are with other posters and obvioulsy not Rachael.

I said before I agreed with Olympia's post that blaming a teenager who has been trained most of her life to compete and "go for it" is not quite right.

I do strongly disagree with mathman's take on this going back to the earlier thread.

Right is right and wrong is wrong.
There can be no doubt that Team Flatt was wrong in the way they handled this. I mentioned Agnes may have left implying Tom Z knows he will be suspended for a while and Agnes needs a coach for next season. I coud be wrong about that.....

Tonichelle · Jun 16, 2011

Mathman said:
Christopher Bowman was never fined, for all his transgressions against the sport.

No, he (and Harding) got something worse... an entire federation turning its back on them for their transgressions... Weir might get lumped into that group as well with all he did to thumb his nose at them (yet he never got a reprimand for displaying "Team Russia" while at the Olympics in 06. W2G, Johnny!)

I think it's a little odd that Rachel is the first in history to do so, and I agree - after TWO MONTHS - they decide to do it. Me thinks this is in response to someone making a lot of noise.

I'm as black and white as it comes (just ask some of the regulars from "way back") but I think Team Rachel should be getting the fine/reprimand more so than her. if Tom Z gets off scottfree - which is likely judging by other coaches and what they get away with - then it will be completely WRONG.

champs · Jun 16, 2011

I believe some staff members from each federation always come to international competitions, as we often see in the ice network photo sections, and I believe they include some medical staff. I often see Japanese Fed staff and French Fed staff standing near their skaters' coaches monitoring the skaters practice. So I'm wondering if the USFS staff who were at Moscow Worlds did not notice anything when Rachael was practicing during the practice sessions the day before the short program.

seniorita · Jun 16, 2011

FlattFan said:
So if the USFS monitored Rachael before 2011 Worlds, she would still get to go like Ryan did?
She then placed 18th at Worlds and all is fine?

In that case, why did a certain famous coach foam his mouth? :think:

Even if Rachael could barely walk, she doesn't have to give up her spot to anyone. Some sad old queens like drama and sour grape. Probably woke up early to read this article gleefully and strangely felt alive.

:thumbsup:

Mathman said:
So far, Rachael's announced plans are to sign up for a full load of classes in chemical engineering at Stanford in the fall

She is sooooooooo lucky! If I were Rachel I would say nothing and send the federation a christmas postcard from Stanford.

babayaga · Jun 16, 2011

I feel terrible for Rachael. I hope this whole thing will not make her decide to quit. I loved her new short program this season too and I don't think she has reached her artistic potential yet. And the "prominent coach's" student better do well at nationals and very well at worlds next season after the comments he made.

MrScroogeMcDuck · Jun 16, 2011

I feel awful for Rachael. She has been treated like trash by so many for years and now this. I have never been a huge supporter of Flatt, but now I hope she continues competing this coming season just to give a big middle finger to the haters.

Neda · Jun 16, 2011

They just found a scapegoat. I believe that the federation should not punish or pardon sportsmen, when it pleases, but to make compulsory medical examination before a competition, if this issue is so important.

Mathman · Jun 16, 2011

I tend to look at things like this from the point of view of the athlete, rather than of the governing organization.

You show up. When they call your number you skate. You do your best.

If crusading sportswriters and rival coaches get their knickers in a twist -- whatever.

ImaginaryPogue · Jun 16, 2011

Mathman, my understanding is that skaters competing internationally are required to sign a waiver stating they'll disclose any injuries they sustain. Flatt didn't. From the POV of the athlete, how can you justify that conduct?

blue dog · Jun 16, 2011

ImaginaryPogue said:
Mathman, my understanding is that skaters competing internationally are required to sign a waiver stating they'll disclose any injuries they sustain. Flatt didn't. From the POV of the athlete, how can you justify that conduct?

But she didn't find out about the injury until the Friday before, right? She probably had a lot of pain, and Tom just told her to skate through it. He probably told her the pain is from being tired, and it having been a long season. Then they find out that it's a stress fracture. That wouldn't have been enough time, in my opinion, to get Mirai to Moscow with a visa. Alissa would've ended up being the only skater from the US in the ladies, and then what?

Mathman · Jun 16, 2011

ImaginaryPogue said:
From the POV of the athlete, how can you justify that conduct?

If you are asking me personally, I would say that it's not my job either to justify or to condemn anyone's conduct -- certainly not that of an athlete who has no agenda than to perform to the best of her ability.

If you are asking me to put myself in the position of Frank Carroll, Phil Hersh, or the officials of the USFSA -- I'll pass. They don't need my help in deciding what they ought to do.

Spun Silver · Jun 16, 2011

What a fall from grace for Rachael. It's quite stunning and sure seems to say volumes about how the USFSA feels about her these days.

Are they really so pissed, are they that afraid of Carroll and Hersh, or did Carroll convince them that Mirai was absolutely going to get the 3rd spot back if not a medal?

And why would they announce her punishment before Tom Z's so that she has to take the heat by herself?

U.S. Figure Skating reprimands, fines Rachael Flatt

skfan

janetfan

Match Penalty

Mathman

janetfan

Match Penalty

skfan

janetfan

Match Penalty

Spun Silver

Serious Business

janetfan

Match Penalty

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

champs

seniorita

babayaga

MrScroogeMcDuck

Neda

Mathman

ImaginaryPogue

blue dog

Trixie Schuba's biggest fan!

Mathman

Spun Silver

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