Katarina Witt

How did she deprive Debi of practice time? Was she in charge of the rink time?

I don't have a link for this, but years ago I heard that KW's practice to Carmen was first. When it was Debi's turn and the music came on, KW stepped on the ice and began her program again. I don't know if Debi was in shock or humiliated, but she did not fight for her practice.

I might have read this in an article at the time. Since it was so long ago, I doubt if I could find a digitized version of it (most publishers started digitizing in the mid-90s).

If anyone knows anything more, please contribute.

Katarina and Debi didn't use identical music. Maybe they did play Witt's music again. I have no idea what happened but Debi and her team should have set things straight.

If I recall it was just a little gamesmanship from Kati. Similar to the time Yuna complained she was being swarmed by skaters in her warmup.

Kati looked like Princess but was a fierce competitor. I don't recall her being reprimanded for her actions in Calgary.

She might have psyched out Debi but I don't think she broke any rules.

I don't have an exact memory of that competition, but I did watch it on TV (with heart in mouth most of the time, not only for Witt/Thomas but for the two Brians), and I'm fairly sure nothing as blatant as that happened. They'd have made a huge fuss about it on American TV, during those Cold War days. Dick Button was one of the commentators! He would have blown a gasket. So whatever tactics Witt used, they were within the rules. (They did make a rule afterwards, to clamp down on the use of provocative costumes, but that's another story!)

As for the rubber ball statement, I am a bit confused because the rubber ball I played with as a kid was what we used to call a Spaldeen (a widely available fist-sized ball used for bouncing games and catch, whose brand name was Spaulding), which was pink. So it wasn't inevitable to think of a black ball (those little handball balls) when one heard that phrase. As for using the phrase to refer to Debi in terms of physique, it seems unlikely. Debi and Kat were actually rather similar in general type, both being "non-sprites"--a bit taller, muscular, and with curves. Not that I'm defending Witt out of hand, but what was the context of her answer? Are we sure she was referring to Thomas or to rivals in general? Or just to female athletes in general?

Certainly she played hard, but I think as she matured (and as she gained more freedom because of the improved political situation), she changed for the better. Beyond that, I'm not knowledgeable enough about her actions or motivations to judge.

There was nothing that Witt did on ice that I liked. I couldn't stand her during the 84 Olympics. I was a true American fan and wanted no one else to skate better than the American girls. After watching her short program, I knew we were in trouble. That girl had so much pizzazz you couldn't help but, love her. During the long I was still rooting for Zayak, and the very cute Chin. Sumners always seemed like a ***** to me so I wasn't so devastated when she didn't win. Although the Olympics ended with Witt winning it wasn't until about 87 that I started to become a fan of hers. The one thing I learned to love about Witt was her determination. She wasn't necessarily the best skater but, she was like a boxer. She used the power of intimidation to psych her competitors out and it usually worked for her. In later years she was fortunate enough to make money when the market was hot(94 scandal).

Since Debi was mentioned in this thread I will add my two cents about her. At 86 Nationals(my first) I was in the first row watching history being made. I got the chance to meet her afterwards and I had the opportunity to hang with her for a little while. That girl was really smart. I get the sense that if she had come from money and only concentrated on skating she would have been even better. When people like Witt and Thomas come around I tell my friends that life is not fair. People like Witt and Thomas got on the line twice(this is a metaphor for when god is handing out gifts) Witt got on the line for looks and then got back on the line for skating. Thomas got on the line for smarts and then again for skating (and she wasn't a bad looking girl either). 10 years later I ran into her and she said to me "didn't I meet you at nationals in 86?"

I don't think we should hold against an athlete anything they say in preparation for a tournament or soon there after. There are too many emotions running rampant.

A lovely way to put it, MasterB.

And what a wonderful anecdote about Thomas! I'm so jealous (in the nicest possible way) that you got to watch her skate live, and then even to spend time with her. Indeed she did "get on the line" two or three times. I'm so glad she's gone on to lead a life of such accomplishment.

One of my coaches is still friends with Debi Thomas - they met when he went to Nationals as a Novice and she was making a name for herself (I think it was when he was a Novice) and he was pitching a fit on a practice session over something that was going right. She was rinkside and just started laughing at him loudly. Made him think twice about his actions and how he was conducting himself at NATIONALS.

let`s talk said:

One thing is unforgivable- her words about herself and Debi before OG: "Every man prefers to look at a well-shaped woman instead of a rubber ball." At that time rubber was mainly of black color.

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Ouch... totally unpc comment and totally colourful (no puns intended.)

Unforgiveable? Not so sure, she was a women of her times, it was different then. She might have played up to the part of a media darling providing memorable sound bite (80s excess and hedonism) which she readily pleases. Weird thing is if she had been a man and the sport is Boxing, nobody would have thought twice about it. If she meant interms of racism, then it is plainly wrong, and I think she knows it.

Kitt said:

Even more despicable.....I hope she apologized to Debi when she later acquired some more "class." Until I hear that, my opinion will remain.

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Class is a state of mind and changeable throughout a life time of experience. When you are young, there are many stupid things you regret saying, and I doubt Katerina is too proud of her ill judged moment like this. I wouldn't hold a grudge, I doubt Debi does either.

MasterB said:

There was nothing that Witt did on ice that I liked. I couldn't stand her during the 84 Olympics. I was a true American fan and wanted no one else to skate better than the American girls. After watching her short program, I knew we were in trouble. That girl had so much pizzazz you couldn't help but, love her. During the long I was still rooting for Zayak, and the very cute Chin. Sumners always seemed like a ***** to me so I wasn't so devastated when she didn't win. Although the Olympics ended with Witt winning it wasn't until about 87 that I started to become a fan of hers. The one thing I learned to love about Witt was her determination. She wasn't necessarily the best skater but, she was like a boxer. She used the power of intimidation to psych her competitors out and it usually worked for her. In later years she was fortunate enough to make money when the market was hot(94 scandal).

Since Debi was mentioned in this thread I will add my two cents about her. At 86 Nationals(my first) I was in the first row watching history being made. I got the chance to meet her afterwards and I had the opportunity to hang with her for a little while. That girl was really smart. I get the sense that if she had come from money and only concentrated on skating she would have been even better. When people like Witt and Thomas come around I tell my friends that life is not fair. People like Witt and Thomas got on the line twice(this is a metaphor for when god is handing out gifts) Witt got on the line for looks and then got back on the line for skating. Thomas got on the line for smarts and then again for skating (and she wasn't a bad looking girl either). 10 years later I ran into her and she said to me "didn't I meet you at nationals in 86?"

I don't think we should hold against an athlete anything they say in preparation for a tournament or soon there after. There are too many emotions running rampant.

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Love your entire post. Debi sounds lovely and so bright (and really lucky to be born in America).

As a highly impressionable kid, I actually remember Katarina's Carmen at the 88 Olympics... her performance was just so engaging and bewitching. And yes she does look like Brook Shield who was super popular in Asia with her dark thick eye brows. And I totally agree with your last sentence.

A look back at the way it was:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,966927-1,00.html

"Everywhere the rival ice queens went, cameras snapped, reporters prodded, fans pursued. Some excess was inevitable, the inescapable glamour of a competition that features svelte young women in scanty costumes.
As Debi Thomas sardonically remarked, "It's definitely a Miss America sport."


How interesting to hear those words from a world champion and Olympic medalist.

Katarina Witt did engage in some "gamesmanship" during her competitive days. By her own admission, she occasionally remained at the rink while her competitor's music was played for their freeskate practice -- and she would improvise to the music. This may or may not have affected the skater whose music was being played. She told Larry King years later she realized this wasn't "very nice" of her. And, during competitions, she would remain at rinkside after receiving her scores and watch the performances of the next skaters. Perhaps she should have exited and watched the rest of the competition backstage, or perhaps she should have changed and taken a seat in the stands. Be it as it may, most skaters are so totally and completely focused on their routines that they would have been (or should have been) oblivious to Witt's presence.

I remember when the two women skaters collided during practice at the 1994 Olympics. Witt was also on the ice, not invovled with the collision, yet she raced over to the skaters and helped both get back onto their feet.

When Witt regained her World title at the 1987 Worlds in Cincinnati, she had a very charming interview with Scott Hamilton. She said it had been very hard to follow Debi Thomas, who had skated very well, and she did her best to concentrate and give her best performance. She turned in what may have been the finest competitive performance of her life, and she brought down the house.

I for one cannot imagine the pressure Witt must have been under as a East German athlete. The GDR athletes were expected to win medals. They were not competing "to have fun". They were there to win medals, and to win the gold medal, if at all possible. The GDR financed their figure skating careers - including coaching, dance lessons, ice time, costumes, music, etc., and the GDR expected to receive a "good return" from their investment. Witt was a very intelligent young athlete who trained very hard and competed to win. As I've written before, the girl was an amazing competitor. She may not have been the best all-around skater, but she was the best competitor.

Agreed, Silverpond. When I referred to Witt as a good sport, what I was primarily thinking of was that incident in Lillehammer where she picked up both skaters afterward. In fact, one major newspaper (I think it was the New York Times) had photos showing her helping both of them up. The skaters were Oksana Baiul and Tania Szewczenko, as I recall. Witt wasn't that altruistic at the beginning of her competitive career--largely for the reasons you cite in your second paragraph--but as the saying goes, it's not where you start, it's where you finish, and she gained wisdom and a larger outlook as she went along.

The rubber ball comment was not directed at Debi Thomas and was not racial. There was a controversy about Witt's short program costume being too revealing. Liz Manley's coach, Peter Dunfield, talking to the press, said "We're here to skate in a dress, not a G-string" and said all that was needed was the "horse and reins." Of course reporters went to Witt for a response, hence, the rubber ball comment. Whatever Witt may have thought of Thomas, it was pretty obvious Debbi had what was considered a good figure for skating at the time. Manley was thought -- not by all, but by some -- as being a bit too short. Obviously they all looked good and it was all nonsense.

Thanks so much for providing background for that "rubber ball" comment, nylynnr! I felt pretty sure it had to have some other explanation besides racial motivation because I couldn't imagine anyone likening the tall, lithe Thomas to a ball of any description. So the comment had to have another application. As I said, if there had been any hint of racist intent in the remark, the U.S. announcers would have been all over it, and it would have been mentioned every time the ladies took to the ice--and I'm fairly sure I would have remembered that to this day, with great indignation on Debi's behalf.

A few years later, Liz said in an interview that she herself was wearing high cut costumes showing half her butt in shows.

Olympia said:

As for the rubber ball statement, I am a bit confused because the rubber ball I played with as a kid was what we used to call a Spaldeen (a widely available fist-sized ball used for bouncing games and catch, whose brand name was Spaulding), which was pink.

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My guess is the "rubber ball" was an English version of what was originally said: "kautschuk", not "gummi." The English word "caoutchouc" is not widely used, so "natural rubber" or "rubber" usually comes instead. Btw, her words in Russian were also translated as "kauchuk" ball. And the color of that material is black.

"Rubber ball" conjures up the shape and the bounciness, not a colour. There are so many other references one can make to imply "black".

I didn't pay much attention to Katerina's 1st Olympics.

I do recall rooting for Debi over Katerina at their Olympics. However, Debi's loss was her own as she failed to land her jumps. If I recall correctly Liz Manley actually won the free skate was behind in figures and SP - thus, the silver for her.

I didn't care for 'early' Katerina programs. I think one that stands out in my head is one at probably her 1st World Pro's. She wore a red lacey unitard and basically flirted - few jumps, few spins. With hindsight, I guess some of her tracings might have showed off her edges, etc, but I really didn't think that program was a 'skating' program - just showmanship.

I definitely got to appreciate her more as a pro - Schindler's List is a real standout for me. I enjoyed her work at the 94 Olympics, where she knew she wouldn't win, but just wanted to enjoy the Olympic experience without the enormous pressure during her prior 2.