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Thread: Assignment surprise...?

  1. #61
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    It looks like there are a LOT of skaters who only currently have one assignment. Am I the only one who thinks that federations will use their TBA assignments to give a skater with only one assignment thus far a chance for the final? Examples: I'd be very surprised if either (or both) Cain/Reagan or Castelli/Shnapir don't skate at Skate America. Surely the Japanese ice dancing slot will go to the Reeds. I'd be surprised if Alban didn't get the French TBA slot. In fact, I'm willing to bet a lot of the TBAs go not to random, unassigned skaters, but rather to skaters who currently have only one assignment.

    In other notes, USFSA selected Caroline Zhang? That surprised me.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    ^Men didn't suddenly go back to doing quads because Lysacek vanished. Surely you haven't forgotten that quads are now worth a lot more compared to when Lysacek was competing. And that was actually a result of Lysacek's controversial victory in Vancouver. The odds are stacked against him now.
    I hope this is the case and want that to be true. I defnitely do not want a return to Lysacek style quadless victories but the judges did give him Olympic gold in 2010 without a quad. There was obviously a mindset that agreed with him being an all around skater who could do everything and quads didn't matter at all.

  3. #63
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    Mirai having back to back competitions worries me a bit but if she's in shape it shouldn't matter. I see she's going head to head with the Russian babies too. Should be interesting.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    They certainly appeared to when the quadless Olympic champion wasn't competing. It will have to be tested if Lysacek comes back.

    Everyone knows Chan is doing all these quads because of weakness in the 3A and will that come back to hurt him against Lysacek. There willl be a lot of campaigning against Chan like there was against Plushenko by pro Lysacek people and they have ammunition to use. Will it go back to doing quads is a sign of skating weakness like it was against Plushenko. That doing quads is actually a bad thing and you are relying too much on jumps.




    His foot was not broken. That's going too far. He did a horrible quad at US nationals and it was out.
    gmyers, your paranoia is endearing (I know how much you love the quad and I hope it stays simply to make you happy), but a few thoughts.

    1. Actually, the rules didn't favour a quad over everything else. They, up to but not including this season, favoured the skaters who had everything but the quad as opposed to the quad skaters without much else.

    2. This season, that's not longer true. Chan was able to win Skate Canada thanks to the way the quad/3As were scored. If we used the Olympic LPs and scored them according to current rules, Plushenko would win. If they were scored as they were in season's past, Oda would've won. By inflating the base value of the quad, lowering the penalties for doing a faulty quad, lowering the points you can get elsewhere (another high value step sequence), reducing the penalty for URs, AND reducing the GOE for lower-value triples, they've made the quad a lot more attractive now than it was last season. That's five reasons why the quad had such a resurgence this year.

    3. Actually, they don't have the ammunition to use, and here's why. Chan's skating skills and transitions are already considered the best, and they've been so for at least two seasons. Chan doesn't have much of a 3A. Guess what? LYSACEK DOESN'T EITHER! Sure, he lands them, but they aren't pretty. But more than that the argument wasn't that using quads was a sign of skating weakness. It was that skating weakness was a sign of skating weakness. Chan does a quad from steps. He packs his programs to the rafters. They won't have that ammunition there because it is obviously false. No one believes that a clean Chan relies too much on jumps - that's simply not an argument that makes sense (it actually makes more sense to argue he relies on transitions in lieu of actual interpretation/choreography/execution - I'd disagree, but it makes more sense).

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    I hope this is the case and want that to be true. I defnitely do not want a return to Lysacek style quadless victories but the judges did give him Olympic gold in 2010 without a quad. There was obviously a mindset that agreed with him being an all around skater who could do everything and quads didn't matter at all.
    Given Lysacek's margin of victory, it's clear the judges did not purposefully award him the gold medal. There are obvious cases when they do (e.g., Patrick Chan), but the men's event in Vancouver is not one them.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    I hope this is the case and want that to be true. I defnitely do not want a return to Lysacek style quadless victories but the judges did give him Olympic gold in 2010 without a quad. There was obviously a mindset that agreed with him being an all around skater who could do everything and quads didn't matter at all.
    Could you elaborate on why you think Evan will not do a quad in his routines? I'm sure his injury has healed and if he is practicing then a quad may well be in his future unless you have personal grudge against Evan. I don't know.

    There are no rules or regulations that say what jumps MUST be included. There are many points available for other scoring. Even Plushenko said that and he intends to dance his way in the future..

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Everyone knows Chan is doing all these quads because of weakness in the 3A and will that come back to hurt him against Lysacek. There willl be a lot of campaigning against Chan like there was against Plushenko by pro Lysacek people and they have ammunition to use. Will it go back to doing quads is a sign of skating weakness like it was against Plushenko. That doing quads is actually a bad thing and you are relying too much on jumps.
    It would be ridiculous, I don't think people will buy again the story. Besides, Plushy didn't broke his tongue (yet), he can still whine about any quadless winner. The scandal will be huger than in Vancouver, after a World Champion with 2 quads and great skating to get back to quadless skaters?

    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    .

    3. Actually, they don't have the ammunition to use, and here's why. Chan's skating skills and transitions are already considered the best, and they've been so for at least two seasons. Chan doesn't have much of a 3A. Guess what? LYSACEK DOESN'T EITHER! Sure, he lands them, but they aren't pretty. But more than that the argument wasn't that using quads was a sign of skating weakness. It was that skating weakness was a sign of skating weakness. Chan does a quad from steps. He packs his programs to the rafters. They won't have that ammunition there because it is obviously false. No one believes that a clean Chan relies too much on jumps - that's simply not an argument that makes sense (it actually makes more sense to argue he relies on transitions in lieu of actual interpretation/choreography/execution - I'd disagree, but it makes more sense).
    You're underestimating the imagination of these people, believe me.
    Last edited by ciocio; 06-27-2011 at 01:44 PM.

  8. #68
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    Unless there have been changes in the scoring system, the winner of any competition should be the skater with the most Pointss.

    What do you think about the Ladies who MUST do a 3A now?

  9. #69
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    Sorry, but how many ladies do 3A? Or did in the past?

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciocio View Post
    It would be ridiculous, I don't think people will buy again the story. Besides, Plushy didn't broke his tongue (yet), he can still whine about any quadless winner. The scandal will be huger than in Vancouver, after a World Champion with 2 quads and great skating to get back to quadless skaters?
    You're underestimating the imagination of these people, believe me.
    It was not Plushy's whining that brought the change in the base value of the Quad. It was Brian Joubert who whined because of Buttle who never did do a quad but managed to get points on the attempt. A senior skater attempting does not go over with me. I want the real thing. There's nothing like it. Attempts and Partial credits if you must have them belong in Novice not in Senior.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciocio View Post
    Sorry, but how many ladies do 3A? Or did in the past?
    There have been several Ladies who have completed 3As. Are you saying that certain jumps MUST be included in the Men's competitions but not in the Ladies? Equality, my dear!

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    It was not Plushy's whining that brought the change in the base value of the Quad. It was Brian Joubert who whined because of Buttle who never did do a quad but managed to get points on the attempt. A senior skater attempting does not go over with me. I want the real thing. There's nothing like it. Attempts and Partial credits if you must have them belong in Novice not in Senior.

    There have been several Ladies who have completed 3As. Are you saying that certain jumps MUST be included in the Men's competitions but not in the Ladies? Equality, my dear!
    They'll both whine, if it makes you happy. Maybe we'll see much more real quads next season, how do you know Evan won't have one too???
    Equality means to include quads too!!!!
    Last edited by ciocio; 06-27-2011 at 02:00 PM.

  13. #73
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    Lysacek never really had a good or consistent quad at all. Not doing them was the best thing for his skating. If he landed a quad he would have a problem with the next jump like the 3A at 2009 4CC. Things did not begin to come together for Lysacek until he stopped doing the quad and stopped trying them even in practice. What did he say he did lke 3 a day or something? That's not serious. It was just not serious.

    What if Inman sent out another email that said something like Chan is not doing proper transitions anymore and Lysacek is. It's not like campaigning against American's top opponents is above Inman.

    I don't see how Lysacek could submit his name without an anti-quad plan. His quads were never that good and programs with them never got him much success.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    What if Inman sent out another email that said something like Chan is not doing proper transitions anymore and Lysacek is. It's not like campaigning against American's top opponents is above Inman.

    I don't see how Lysacek could submit his name without an anti-quad plan. His quads were never that good and programs with them never got him much success.
    He doesn't need Inman, there are plenty of FS blogs.
    I want to make clear that no way I think that Evan is somehow involved in an "anti-quad plan".
    Last edited by ciocio; 06-27-2011 at 02:18 PM.

  15. #75
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    Let's wait and see the SKATING before starting up with the conspiracy theories.

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