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Thread: Japan Open

  1. #151
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    Oh, I was exagerrating the conspiracy stuff, but the program is just so obviously bad. Not divisive, not Nichol-boring-but-high-points-anyway, but just a poorly put together program. That interview Morosov gave where he stated he basically tossed Mikis' program together in a couple days, knowing if she hit the jumps she would win.... well, Amodio doesn't have that kind of advantage, and he's made it more likely he wouldn't hit all the jumps (see how many he doubled/singled here). It's interesting to note that gmyers assumed Lysacek would take the strategy of backloaded six jumping passes in order to avoid the quad. I pointed out that's something Morosov would do, and while Amodio didn't avoid the quad (good on him for going for it here) I have to say I feel somewhat vindicated.

    re: Fernandez - he left because he felt Amodio was getting all of the attention. It'll be interesting to see if Amodio follows suit if Voronov/Leonova/V-T/I-K start to dominate that scene. I doubt it.

  2. #152
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc View Post
    Kozuka specifically, but not skaters in general.

    Different skaters have different priorities or goals, so there will always be different strategies--never get boring!!! For skaters like Brian Jubert and Evgeni Plushenko who had won the gold, and for intermediate or new-to-the-scene skaters that are still trying to find their own styles, experimenting various music shall be encouraged.
    So following that logic, you would support Patrick Chan trying new things and taking the unprecedented step of having two new programs in a season? Because you may have meant just Kozuka, but you certainly referred to Chan's tendency to keep programs as a good approach. Now, I for one would be vastly entertained if he were to do a techno program... No? Too much? Okay, I for one will be very happy if he has Kurt choreograph a competition program for him. Or Jeffrey Buttle. Or Shae-Lynn Bourne. Really, anyone other than Lori Nichol.

    Okay, and other than Morozov, because seeing Patrick mugging to Besame Mucho in tiger stripes would be more than I could deal with.

    Quote Originally Posted by fscric View Post
    I'm not saying it won't happen as I rate Kozuka to be a very good skater and he sure has the ability to beat Chan, but wasn't Kozuka at his best in his last World LP?
    My point exactly - thus the "should". Takahiko should have won the LP. The scoring was more reputation-driven in that case than performance-driven.

    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    re: Fernandez - he left because he felt Amodio was getting all of the attention. It'll be interesting to see if Amodio follows suit if Voronov/Leonova/V-T/I-K start to dominate that scene. I doubt it.
    I know, and I think Morozov may be focusing more on the Russians than on Florent right now. The decision may not be Florent's, in the end: if his results end up taking a dive with this program, I bet the FFSG will ship him elsewhere real fast. Unlike Brian Joubert, who's near retirement and who has earned the right to do whatever he wants, Florent is at an earlier stage in his career and his federation likely has more control over his career.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    My point exactly - thus the "should". Takahiko should have won the LP. The scoring was more reputation-driven in that case than performance-driven.
    It is nothing more than your subjective opinion.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    So following that logic, you would support Patrick Chan trying new things and taking the unprecedented step of having two new programs in a season? Because you may have meant just Kozuka, but you certainly referred to Chan's tendency to keep programs as a good approach.
    I never said categorically "Keeping old programs is a good approach for everyone". Again, each individual has their own limitations, strength, considerations, situations.... Don't overgeneralize again.

    Patrick Chan is a world champion now, so YES I would expect more from him. As you might have read it in other posts, I criticized his emoting skill, which he needs in order to be the greatest skater ever (though he might not need it to win another gold). Will I support Chan in trying new things? Of course. However, I also support Chan's decision of not having a new SP this season because he is trying to add a 4S, to improve his arm movements......


    Did you just wake up, Buttercup? You seem grouchy or argumentative today, quite unusual. Get a cup of coffee or something (Don't put butter. You got too much in your cup already).
    Last edited by skatinginbc; 10-04-2011 at 08:33 AM.

  5. #155
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    ^Since it is an opinion, and not a fact, it is always subjective anyway. And it is usually our opinion that we write on a forum. Buttercup aways backs them up really well. And if I agree with her about Worlds lp, then we have two subjective opinions
    Btw maybe Takahiko also looks to improve something or add an element to his program, how do we know he doesnt?Many skaters do, but somehow most of them change both their programs every season. Although i dont mind if someone keeps a program.

    ImagineryPogue i know you did joke on the conspiracy part, I just took this and made my joke
    Interesting that Amodio did the 4S?( I dont remember if it was 4t or 4s, i blame the costume) and then popped and doubled I dont know how many jumps. I didnt notice he put 6 passes on the second half, there it is the well balanced program ooCoP was looking for. Normally I would look the program again cause I m curious how he put 6 passes there, but no.
    Have V/T moved to Morosov and I missed it somehow?I thought he did the choreo for them for one (or two?) programs.
    Last edited by seniorita; 10-04-2011 at 08:37 AM.

  6. #156
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Skatinginbc - I get what you're getting at, thanks for clarifying. I just find it frustrating to see so little risk-taking on the artistic side of skating these days, and a small number of choreographers doing so many of the programs. Skating is becoming dull. As I wrote, I'd rather see skaters try different things and occasionally fail (P/B in ice dance are a good example of skaters who have taken this approach). I'm happy to see more quads, but skating can't just be about the tech, and I feel that between the way difficulty on TES is being upped and the way the second mark is also very technical these days (SS and TR are really technical components), artistic expression is not emphasized enough.

    I don't like coffee; coffee-free B is the only version you'll come across here.

    Quote Originally Posted by fscric View Post
    It is nothing more than your subjective opinion.
    Well, mine and that of many people. You do realize that people will express subjective opinions in a discussion forum, and that it's kind of the whole point, right? Skating, after all, is nowhere near 100% objective, and and the judges don't always get it right.
    Last edited by Buttercup; 10-04-2011 at 08:55 AM.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    a small number of choreographers doing so many of the programs.
    Yup! That's the problem.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirunna View Post
    Fell in love with this program in the first 5 seconds. Despite the falls, Chan has truly carved and refined his movements to the finger tips. It gave me chill and reminded me of Shen/Zhao, of their artistic beauty in their programs. It made a huge contrast from Take Five SP which he's keeping from last season. And shows a vast range of skills. Great choice! Can't wait to see this program in the GP events!

    Always loved Buttle. But that tight body suit which has shown his big tummy wasn't flattering him one bit.

    Gachinski, the Plushenko+Abt clone, was fine. But the blackish music made me a little depressed. I'm looking for beautiful, calm, steady, sunnyside up things these days. So didn't like it.
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 10-05-2011 at 12:11 AM.

  9. #159
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    I finally watched Chan's program and...meh. I'm much less than impressed. :sheesh: The way some people were talking about it, I was expecting a lot more. It was a little...boring. Can I say that? I was expecting some big climatic moment and it never came...IDK, I expected it to be a lot more than what it was...serves me right for trying to put expectations on skating nowadays.

    The best moments in the program was the big death drop in the middle and that kind of jump move he did in the SlSt towards the end. I'm still shocked he eeked out a win despite three buttplants, but stranger things have happened (like four falls and 1st place finish ). Hopefully they'll continue to work on the program for the GP...right now, I am not impressed.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    I finally watched Chan's program and...meh. I'm much less than impressed. :sheesh: The way some people were talking about it, I was expecting a lot more.
    The downside of reading before watching.

    ...Continue my comments. Takahashi has shown his usual flare and artistry. Too much and too soft hands and wrists for my taste. I prefer Chan's and Buttle's masculine softness in the programs to Takahashi's "flamboyance" - a brilliant word from Joe when he described Takahashi's style. Speaking of Joe, where is he these days? I hope he's healthy and still has time to post here.

    ......quickly go hiding from Takahashi fans...
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 10-05-2011 at 12:08 AM.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    The downside of reading before watching.
    I read, so I already knew this was to be an artistically different program with even energy throughout. What I didn't expect was how much this music moved me the way he skated it.

    I never fell in love with Patrick's program at their first showings. The debut of POTO was especially painful. He came back from his injury and was simply not ready. 3 falls, and 6th place in Skate Canada. (Believers of judging conspiracy, SC's supreme power, home ice advantage, reputation PCS, and Chan's fall privileges please note, as he was skating as the Worlds Silver medalist on home ice.) It was his Canadian Nationals performance of POTO that won me over completely as a fan and I enjoyed repeated viewing of this performance with its couple of glitches. Then the POTO became a struggle in the rest of a very difficult Olympic season and I supported his keeping the program with hope to see it in its full glory. The struggles continued as he ambitiously upped the ante in the new season so it was not until the next Canadian National that I got the program I would watch again and again.

    The Aranjuez is different. I never expected to love watching such a flawed debut. POTO awed me but Aranjuez sweeps and carries me emotionally, albeit with personal sentimental feelings for Spanish guitar and the story of Aranjuez. He skated so much with the music and made me hear and feel it. I guess such appreciation is impossible for those who are "sick" of this music and can't hear it any more. His falls didn't interrupt the choreography at all and I'm quite at ease with them as well. These falls were mainly due to insufficient training on a new program with extremely difficult entries for all the jumps. They were not a mental issue like last year, as can be seen from his beautiful 4T3T right after falling on the first 4T. I expect to see improvements in all aspects of this program. Then it will surly gain more fans.

    Sometime in the near future, I'd probably want to marry this Aranjuez.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirunna View Post
    She definately has the best hand movement in Bussiness right now, soft and dellicate but expressive, also no useless movement at all. I totally admire the choreography and her performance especially after have watched firebird ballet.

    She capture this music so well, pure gem.

  13. #163
    Custom Title periperi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc View Post
    My suggestions for Takahiko Kozuka:

    1. He should ditch his new LP. The beginning slow part was actually not bad, but as the music turned faster and the beats clearer, he was "exposed" for lacking a dance-like feel the music gave. He became disconnected with the music, and his movements turned awkward. I don't think there is a quick fix for him. If he is aiming for a medal in this year's World Championships, he needs to ditch that program immediately and go back to last season's LP that had worked wonders for him, that is champion-worthy, and that could potentially beat Chan if he has a bad skate. If Chan can keep his wonderful Take-Five, why can't Kozuka keep his beautiful Liszt Piano Concerto? Minor changes can be made to his Liszt program to improve PCS and other scoring potentials.
    2. For his competition programs, he should never pick music that has obvious rhythm or beats like Soul Man (last year's SP). Bad, bad choice. Hasn't he realized that his PCS goes down as the beats get clearer? He should pick something that showcases his soft, light, smooth, somewhat naturally lyrical qualities in his skate.

    Bad choice of music. What a waste of his medal potential!
    I think Takahiko is capable of the dance-like feel the music gives, but given that he's just switched to new boots, it couldn't have been the most comfortable he's been out there on the ice. It might sound like I'm just kissing his butt here, but I feel that Soul Man was just a bad program in itself, and it wasn't because of Taka's lack of ability to move to pronounced rhythms and beats, which I personally feel is one of his strengths actually, that made it a failure. The music demanded constant body movement, but the choreography had him posing one too many. It was out of place and awkward. Take-Five was a program with obvious beats as well, but it was a great program and he skated well to it, IMO.

    That being said, I am disappointed with the music cut and the choreography, but I'll reserve complete judgement until SA.

  14. #164
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    ^^^ To think so many mocked Joannie as stocky and more like an athlete for some contact sport.

    eta. Her Performance was exquisite with the mature elegance the youngsters can't compare.
    Last edited by SkateFiguring; 10-04-2011 at 02:45 PM.

  15. #165
    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    The downside of reading before watching.

    ...Continue my comments. Takahashi has shown his usual flair and artistry. Too much and too soft hands and wrists for my taste. I prefer Chan's and Buttle's masculine softness in the programs to Takahashi's "flamboyance" - a brilliant word from Joe when he described Takahashi's style. Speaking of Joe, where is he these days? I hope he's healthy and still has time to post here.

    ......quickly go hiding from Takahashi fans...
    Oh don't worry this Dai fan can take it, no need to hide from me. I love Dai's "flamboyance" IMO that is what makes him a
    Star but he will need the tech to keep up with the other men this season. I miss Joe too.
    Last edited by demarinis5; 10-04-2011 at 02:25 PM.

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